Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | questioning | Gen 6:6 | Beja | 221335 | ||
Bruno, Yes, I'm sorry you missunderstood me. When I said that we live in a world in which, "It is noble to seek the truth, but the ultimate heresy to claim you've found it." I was not saying that you have claimed to found it but rather expressing what I considered the attitude of the world towards what we are discussing. Concerning governments. First, I do not think that the commands to Israel regarding how their judicial process were to work were mandates to every government that ever lives. Second, how would it logically follow that Western governments not obeying scripture proves scripture false? And third, I will not continue to debate the inerrency of scripture on these forums. In any other place I would gladly defend them, but doing so here I feel violates the terms of agreement you and I both signed upon joining this forum. The authority of scriptures is the "given" of these forums and I ask you in respect to our hosts to discontinue this aspect of our discussion. In Christ, Beja |
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2 | questioning | Gen 6:6 | Bruno Dosca | 221355 | ||
Hello Beja, Now I understand what you meant by the "ultimate heresy" thing. Sorry to have misunderstood you. About the government: You ask: "How would it logically follow that Western governments not obeying scripture proves scripture false?" It simply doesn't follow. I agree with you. What I was pointing to was your personal behaviour not being against a government that was not applying the Biblical justice. But now I see you think the Biblical justice was meant to be applied to Israel and not as a general law for other cases. I am not sure if this the orthodox view since I have heard very different interpretations. But as you think this is the correct view then I see why the whole thing is reasonable and logical in your mind. Doing an exercise of the imagination, can you imagine yourself stoning to death somebody who has, lets say disobeyed his/her parents, if you were born in Israel during the bronze age? I think it is not difficult to understand why I am so worried about this things. Regarding the discussion about the truth or falsehood of the Bible I understand your reasons for not wanting to continue it and I accept it. Nevertheless I was invited by Mr. Doc to put my questions about different passages of the Bible that I think contain factual mistakes and/or contradictions. I will put them in a way that wont offend anybody, I wont present them as false and I will accept that the responses will take the scriptures as true. I will only ask if there is somebody who wants to explain it. Bruno. |
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3 | questioning | Gen 6:6 | Beja | 221356 | ||
Bruno, One thing where I'm not sure you are understanding me is regarding when we are to disobey. We do not disobey a government because the government has done something wrong. We are to obey even wicked governments up until they actually tell us to disobey God. At which point we obey God rather than men (acts 5:29.) Beyond that one command, we go back to obeying our governments. Second, are you suggesting that because I can or can not picture myself stoning a man that scripture is false based on that? Of course you would not suggest that. Sir, see that you are not at all appealing to reason but rather your strategy is to tell me that based on how I feel about what the old testament says, I am to judge it right or false. You are not using logic, but trying to horrify me by what scripture says. What is the "factual mistake and/or contradiction" here? My feelings do not trump the word of God! And with all due respect, neither do yours. I would also put forward, if I recall this old testament command correctly, you are misrepresenting scripture at this point. It is not as if somebody disobeyed their parents once and therefore were drug off to be stoned. If I recall correctly, this was a recourse for parents whose child was continually rebellious. But perhaps I am remembering the text incorrectly. In Christ, Bruno |
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4 | questioning | Gen 6:6 | Bruno Dosca | 221358 | ||
Beja, The first paragraph of your last post clarifies a lot your views to me, thank you. But I have a doubt: In the process of obeying a wicked government should we, according to your views, do wicked things (with the exception of disobeying God) if the government commands so? Or do you think that by doing wicked things we always would be in itself disobeying God? To your question "are you suggesting that because I can or can not picture myself stoning a man that scripture is false based on that?" I answer negatively, of course. That would be, at least, logically incorrect. I just wanted to know to which extent your certainty about the truth of the Bible would lead you. Because, although you have implicitly suggested the answer to that, you haven't said so explicitly. I should notice here that, with the exception of my reference to the progress of our understanding of justice, I never mentioned any negative thing against the stoning tradition, and surely never applied any negative adjective to it. You are the one who brings the "horrify" word here. Why is it so if the stonings were just applied after God commanding it (equivalent to "right" from your point of view)? And even more important in order to find the exit in this labyrinth, from where do you think our emotions come and what are they for? Bruno. PS: You are right about the passage in the OT. Apart from disobeying parents there is also rebellion. Sorry for my bad memory. Therefore I change my example to a case equal to the one described in the OT. Bruno. |
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