Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | HOTH | 175126 | ||
Hi eklektos, Thanks again for your response. You stated: “Yes, the covenant was between God and Abraham, not God and Sarah. So, the promise also included the tribes of Ishmael plus Isaac.” I think that runs counter to Gen 17:15-21, where God specifically tells Abraham, “But My covenant, My promise and pledge, I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.” Abraham pleaded for Ishmael in verse 18. God heard Abraham and gave Ishmael a separate and distinct blessing. Gen 17:15 And God said to Abraham, As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai; but Sarah [Princess] her name shall be. Gen 17:16 And I will bless her and give you a son also by her. Yes, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall come from her. Gen 17:18 And [he] said to God, Oh, that Ishmael might live before You! Gen 17:19 But God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed, and you shall call his name Isaac [laughter]; and I will establish My covenant or solemn pledge with him for an everlasting covenant and with his posterity after him. Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard and heeded you: behold, I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly; He will be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. Gen 17:21 But My covenant, My promise and pledge, I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year. Further, when God tells Abraham that Sarah “shall be a mother of nations” it confirms this covenant was with Isaac and with his posterity after him. Yet, I do not think that ancient Israel, ancient Judea, and Edom can be looked at as having fulfilled God’s promise to make Abraham a “father of many nations.” Maybe Sarah could considered a “mother of nations”, for these three nations, but I doubt it. The twelve tribes represent only two nations, not twelve. God broke Israel into two nations, no more than that. I ran a key word search of the word “nations” in the book of Genesis. The results are very interesting. Indeed, the promise that Abraham would be a “father of many nations” fell to Isaac’s son Jacob-Israel. In Gen 35:10-11 “Again God said to him, your name is Jacob; you shall not be called Jacob any longer, but Israel shall be your name. So He called him Israel. And God said to him, I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall come from you and kings shall be born of your stock. . . Jacob-Israel, when he blessed Ephraim and Manasseh, the sons of Joseph, the promise of “a multitude of nations” was given to Ephraim. Gen 48:16-19 It seems the promise of the “Seed” went to Judah and the Southern Kingdom of Judea and the promise of many nations went to the Northern Kingdom of Israel, specifically the tribe of Ephraim. We know how the promise of the “Seed” was fulfilled in our Lord Jesus Christ. How was the promise of “a multitude of nations” fulfilled? Thanks again for your help and may God be with you, Hoth |
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2 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | eklektos | 175541 | ||
Greetings HOTH, Please forgive the tardy response, I have been in California visiting my Mother and Sister. You asked in post 175126: "We know how the promise of the “Seed” was fulfilled in our Lord Jesus Christ. How was the promise of “a multitude of nations” fulfilled?" I think you may be taking this as 'literal nations' that would evolve from Abraham's seed. The Supremacy of God among "All the Nations" "If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3: 7,29). This is how Paul saw Abraham's blessing coming to the nations. It came through Christ who was the seed of Abraham. By faith people are united to Christ and inherit the blessing of Abraham. "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law... that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles" (Galatians 3:13-14). So the promise of Genesis 12:3 comes true as the missionaries of the Christian church extend the message of the gospel to all the families of the earth." (http://www.strategicnetwork.org) Look at it not that Abraham fathered many nations but to the nations he is a father. Hope this helps, eklektos |
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3 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | HOTH | 175777 | ||
Hi ekletos, I hope you enjoyed your visit and it wasn’t too hot for you. You wrote: “I think you may be taking this as 'literal nations' that would evolve from Abraham's seed.” I am speaking of literal nations of peoples who are descendants of Abraham. These nations would go hand in hand with God’s promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as the stars or sand of the sea, too numerous to count. The promise of the Seed, Jesus Christ, was not a birthright promise. The promise of multiple nations and descendants were birthright promises. 1 Chron 5:2 “Judah prevailed above his brethren, and from him came the prince and leader [and eventually the Messiah]; yet the birthright was Joseph's.” God promised Jacob that he would be a “nation and a company of nations”, just as he had promised Abraham he would be a “father of many nations.” Jacob gave that blessing to Ephraim, the son of Joseph. Joseph is not an ancestor of the promised Seed in which all the families of the earth would be blessed. Therefore, the fulfillment of this promise of “many nations” does not refer to spiritual descendants or those which have faith in Christ. However, I think it is possible they could be the same as the actual descendants of Abraham. God set the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the Israelites, who would be so numerous in the last days. Deu 32:8-9 The fulfillment was not in Ancient Judah or Ancient Israel or in modern Israel. In Genesis 49 Jacob tells his sons where they will be in the “last days”. He told Joseph, the holder of the birthright, the following; “ 22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a well (spring or fountain), whose branches run over the wall. 23Skilled archers have bitterly attacked and sorely worried him; they have shot at him and persecuted him. 24But his bow remained strong and steady and rested in the Strength that does not fail him, for the arms of his hands were made strong and active by the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob, by the name of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25By the God of your father, Who will help you, and by the Almighty, Who will bless you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings lying in the deep beneath, blessings of the breasts and of the womb. 26The blessings of your father [on you] are greater than the blessings of my forefathers [Abraham and Isaac on me] and are as lasting as the bounties of the eternal hills; they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him who was the consecrated one and the one separated from his brethren and [the one who] is prince among them. Hoth |
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4 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | eklektos | 175827 | ||
Greetings Hoth, In speaking of the nations, other than Israel and Judah, as you first asked, who do you see these multitudes of nations to be? eklektos |
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5 | What about Jacob-Israel and Ephraim? | Gen 17:6 | Face | 175842 | ||
Opinions vary, but it could be you. It's really scary for the folks who preach the two house theory, that the Israelites are bound to obey Torah, but not the gentiles. Because there's a good chance every one of us has some of Abraham and Jacob's blood |
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