Results 541 - 560 of 575
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Results from: Notes Author: jlpangilinan Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
541 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22416 | ||
Charis, You said, No, I will not get into a Bible 'tit for tat,' because I really don't know what you are trying to say, When you answer my note to (i dont recall) I am sure that You understand that my understanding of tithe is 10 percent. As a matter of fact the title of this question and answer is "release from 10 percent". What is tithe for you? it is 10 percent or not? If tithe is the same as love offering why Jesus Christ gave another guidelines. When you teach that tithe is an attitude of the heat what do you mean of this did you tell to co-churches that it is the same of love offering, or you tell to them that it is the ten percent of thier income. (i dont know if it is gross or net) You also mentioned that you dont understand what I am trying to say. Or you dont want to understand it. I gave the example of a widow, I know if you are a pastor (or whatsoever title that you have in your church)I know you read that passages and I know you understand it. That is the guideline, there is no require amount. You also mentioned "No, I will not get into a Bible 'tit for tat,'" Why? it seems you afraid that you cannot defend tithe using the scriptures, instead you want to convince me with your story. If I am in the discusion I am always try to defend my stand using scriptures and not using fairy tales. If you want to convince me, try to convince me using passages in the Bible. Like what I mentioned if you recall, if anyone can show me that Jesus Christ included tithe in His teaching, "I am ready to embrace that teaching again" This is my challenge to you now, show me. Our topic here is "TITHE" it is really in the Bible. I am interested in this topic because it is in the bible. I will not participating here in this forum for other things that not included in the bible. What is it you trying to prove? If you arguing me with your own knowledge, I will not be interested anymore, just prove me wrong using the scriptures and not with your own conclusions. Now if the tithe for you is not a ten percent, what is it for you? because if it is a ten percent, then you required people to give 10 percent of thier income. If you can answer what is tithe for you, is ten percent or not I think we can start a new discussion. But I really sure you understand it in the beggining of this discussion because it is the title of the question. My argument is very simple, but you did not try to disprove it. Again Here is my agrument: Please show me that Jesus Christ required himself to Give tithe. Or you can show me that He taught to His desciple to gave tithes. He required Himself to be baptize by John to set an example to us. If the tithe is a right guidelines why Jesus Christ dont do it as an example? Please disprove my stand using passages in the scriptures and not with your own. If you prove you are right using the scriptures then I would agree. When you taught people in the pulpit I am sure you taught them using the scriptures, why not trying to teach me using the scriptures? Just prove to me that I am wrong, but please use passages in the scriptures. I know you keep ignoring my argument, but I hope you are ready to answer it this time. I am not trying to offend you with the kind of questions, Just disprove them using the scriptures and I would agree. |
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542 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22411 | ||
Charis, Did I state that giving is not pleasing to God? What I mentioned here many times that if you can give more than 10 percent of your income it is acceptable to God. What wrong with this guideline of giving. I gave you the example of the widow, that mentioned of Jesus Christ, she gave everything she have, it is very clear that in the motive she gave more than a tithe. You quote me here,: In principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel (1Co 9:13-14); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, Of course the motive now of a Christian is more than what we have in the Old Testament times "In principle of this laws remains" of course do you think When we observed the two Great Commandments do we disobey the law? Please Answer.(with a passages support) We are fulfilling more, you would agree? When you love God with all your heart, with all your strenght, all your soul, what is it in the law did disobey? Please Answer? (with a passages support) When you love your nieghbor as you love yourself, What is it the law that you disobey? Pleas answer (with a passages support) That is why in principle this laws remains. I think it is very clear. The example of Apostle Paul is a very strong statement that the motive of Christian is strong in the Testament. The example of the widow is a very clear example that love offering is more acceptable to GOD. Your Question: This sounds just like asking for money, maybe even 'requiring' it! Also, these do not sound like your words. May I ask who you quote here? ' Can you prove to me that I mentioned that in the New Testament we dont need to give anymore? What I mentioned is the guideline should be came from the heart. I did not mention anything that we dont need to give, But my stand is God love a cheerful giver. Charis, Can you please prove me that I misused the scriptures when I depend my stand. You always mentioned "your point" can we turn this discussion into a biblical? meaning when you depend your stand support it with a passages in the Bibble. We are not arguing here just based on on personal knowledge but what scriptures says. If your stand is truly correct then support it with the passages in the Scriptures. You keep ignoring my argument my friend, My argument is, please show me that Jesus Christ taught his desciple to give tithes to Him. Or He required Himself as an Example to do so, like when He required himself when He asked John to baptize Him. Then I would agree that the tithe is the right guidelines of giving. I hope you wont ignore it this time. Thanks anyway for mentioning that I have a "DEZZYING INTELLECT" just prove your stand base on scriptures not with your own toughts. We have to look to the authorize of the books in the bible and not with our own reason. If you can prove me wrong base on the scriptures, then I will accept THAT I HAVE A "DEZZYING INTELLECT" God bless! Johnny |
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543 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22410 | ||
Michael, 1. I would like to clarify that when I tried to defend my stand, I am using the new testament. Because I understand that in the Old testament, tithing is Legal and Jewish people that are required to give. 2.Did you propose a new discussion points, I am sorry I could really see the relations of your post in tithing. I agree with you that the new covenant is the "Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the (new covenant) in My blood. " So what is your point? Thanks, Johnny |
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544 | DOES GOD HEAR PRAYRS OF UNBELIEVING JEW | Bible general Archive 1 | jlpangilinan | 22286 | ||
EdB, Just some clarifications in your statement: This was your statement: "Without Jesus we can not approach the throne of God. Does God hear the prayers of faithful Jews? I can’t answer that. But this I can, without Jesus they can not find salvation." EdB This is not to criticized your statement, just asking your views about the contradiction it would made in the passages below: Isa 43:10 Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. If we read it carefully, that although we all would agree that Jesus Exist before anything else (Pr 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pr 8:23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.) That time the existence of Jesus Christ are not yet proclaim or announce and whatsoever could it be called. But there are savior already. So how we can really sure that they cannot find salvation. Just a clarifications God has covenat with Abraham, and it was an everlasting covenat": Ge 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. 2. Ge 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, Ge 17:4 ¶ As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Ge 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. Ge 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. Ge 17:7 ¶ And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 7. Ge 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. Ge 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. With that covenant how can we easily say that they cannot find salvation. God also mentioned that He never change: Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. If God never change, how about the covenant of God to Abraham that this Nations is God Nations. How come the God nations cannot find salvation? Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;1 He is a God who cannot lie, so if the Nations of God cannot find salvation, then it is God who lie to Abraham. God bless, Johnny |
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545 | is baptism important | John 3:5 | jlpangilinan | 22281 | ||
Thanks for the information. Johnny |
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546 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22277 | ||
Hi charis, I hope you are not get rid in this discussion. I am interested with your statement in your last note. I am not sure why you have this focus on the 'legality' of the tithe. It is not a legal thing at all! Personally, I don't think it ever was, even in the Old Testament. I would share with you (if you are interested) the explaination regarding tithe in the Old testament. Tithe a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Ge 14:20; Heb 7:6); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee." The first Mosaic law on this subject is recorded in Le 27:30-32. Subsequent legislation regulated the destination of the tithes (Nu 18:21-24,26-28; De 12:5-6,11,17; 14:22-23). The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. In the days of Hezekiah one of the first results of the reformation of religion was the eagerness with which the people brought in their tithes (2Ch 31:5-6). The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Am 4:4; Mal 3:8-10). It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian Church, nevertheless the principle of this law remains, and is incorporated in the gospel (1Co 9:13-14); and if, as is the case, the motive that ought to prompt to liberality in the cause of religion and of the service of God be greater now than in Old Testament times, then Christians outght to go beyond the ancient Hebrew in consecrating both themselves and their substance to God. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property (1) one tithe for the Levites; (2) one for the use of the temple and the great feasts; and (3) one for the poor of the land. 1. It was mention there that"a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses" 2.The paying of the tithes was an important part of the Jewish religious worship. 3. The neglect of this duty was sternly rebuked by the prophets (Am 4:4; Mal 3:8-10). 4. Every Jew was required by the Levitical law to pay three tithes of his property. With those statement I dont think your right when said that it is not a legal thing for the Jewish Religion. It was really a requirements. In addition, Mr 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 42. Mr 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: This widow that mentioned of Jesus Christ I am sure she's not giving the tithe, it was love offering. An there is no requirements there or guideline how much she can give, there is no guideline that she have to gave 10 percent 20 percent or any percent. This is really what I mean of a guidelines of Giving. I hope you get my point. God bless, Johnny |
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547 | Do you put the KJV in the parenthesis? | John 3:16 | jlpangilinan | 22262 | ||
you are welcome my friend. | ||||||
548 | is baptism important | John 3:5 | jlpangilinan | 22260 | ||
Yes I know that I mean is baptism mentioned in the bible: BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD: only mentioned in 1Co 15:29. This expression as used by the apostle may be equivalent to saying, "He who goes through a baptism of blood in order to join a glorified church which has no existence [i.e., if the dead rise not] is a fool." Some also regard the statement here as an allusion to the strange practice which began, it is said, to prevail at Corinth, in which a person was baptized in the stead of others who had died before being baptized, to whom it was hoped some of the benefits of that rite would be extended. This they think may have been one of the erroneous customs which Paul went to Corinth to "set in order." BAPTISM OF CHRIST: Christ had to be formally inaugurated into the public discharge of his offices. For this purpose he came to John, who was the representative of the law and the prophets, that by him he might be introduced into his offices, and thus be publicly recognized as the Messiah of whose coming the prophecies and types had for many ages borne witness. John refused at first to confer his baptism on Christ, for he understood not what he had to do with the "baptism of repentance." But Christ said, "'Suffer it to be so now,' NOW as suited to my state of humiliation, my state as a substitute in the room of sinners." His reception of baptism was not necessary on his own account. It was a voluntary act, the same as his act of becoming incarnate. Yet if the work he had engaged to accomplish was to be completed, then it became him to take on him the likeness of a sinner, and to fulfil all righteousness (Mt 3:15). The official duty of Christ and the sinless person of Christ are to be distinguished. It was in his official capacity that he submitted to baptism. In coming to John our Lord virtually said, "Though sinless, and without any personal taint, yet in my public or official capacity as the Sent of God, I stand in the room of many, and bring with me the sin of the world, for which I am the propitiation." Christ was not made under the law on his own account. It was as surety of his people, a position which he spontaneously assumed. The administration of the rite of baptism was also a symbol of the baptism of suffering before him in this official capacity (Lu 12:50). In thus presenting himself he in effect dedicated or consecrated himself to the work of fulfilling all righteousness. BAPTISM CHRISTIAN: an ordinance immediately instituted by Christ (Mt 28:19-20), and designed to be observed in the church, like that of the Supper, "till he come." The words "baptize" and "baptism" are simply Greek words transferred into English. This was necessarily done by the translators of the Scriptures, for no literal translation could properly express all that is implied in them. BAPTISM, JOHN was not Christian baptism, nor was that which was practised by the disciples previous to our Lord's crucifixion. Till then the New Testament economy did not exist. John's baptism bound its subjects to repentance, and not to the faith of Christ. It was not administered in the name of the Trinity, and those whom John baptized were rebaptized by Paul (Ac 18:24; 19:7). To make myself clear Johnny |
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549 | Did Adam knew the concept of heaven? | Gen 3:19 | jlpangilinan | 22255 | ||
I post those question because in the new Testament Heaven was the Great promises.If Adam and most of people in the Old teatemant including Moses doesnt know about it, why it was promises to us now. What do you think the reason why it not mentioned to them by God. It is God himself who keep talking and giving to Moses his covenant. If I am not mistaken, that time the promises for them was the promise land which is canaan. Johnny |
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550 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22254 | ||
Yes Charis, if somebody can show that it was taught by Jesus Christ I am ready to embrace that teaching again. Do you? I think it is not right to say that if you are not willing to give tithes you not a giver at all. There is a guidelines. "Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." What is wrong with that passages if we are not going to observe that? I am not saying that I am not willing to give, but tithe is not a requirements. Charis, if you want me to agree that tithe is a requirements, just show me a single word that He required His desciple to gave thier tithes to Him. Or you can show me that Jesus Christ made himself as an Example by fulfiling it. If the tithe really is a requirements I know that Jesus Christ will made Himself as an example by doing it. Baptism would you agree is important, Jesus Christ made himself an example when He required himself to be baptized by John. We all would agree that He dont do it for his own salvation (Because He is son of God all things created trough Him and By Him)but to show us how important it is. I think my argument is very simple, just show me those things, and I would agree. Thanks for your time, God bless, Johnny |
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551 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22250 | ||
Yes Debbie, I hope all of us will keep that in mind. We know that we just exchanging toughts of how we understand teaching. Thanks, Johnny |
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552 | Where is the line? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22249 | ||
Hi Debbie, Thanks to your answer, if we really looking for a guideline why we have to create our own guideline. In the new testament Jesus Christ and His deciples gave us the guideline of giving which is love offering. I know that tithe is right in the time of Moses until Jesus Christ was born as human being. He made Himself a living sacrifice to free us our sins. He gave us spirit of Christianity; love, grace,charity and other good things. Jesus Christ only can justify us and not the law of Moses, I know you would agree on that. If the law of moses cannot justify that why we keep doing the things that cannot justified us which is tithe. It is not mean that we are not going to give, but there is a new guideline how to do it. If we observe one part of the law why not observing it at all. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. If we read that passages, it will tell us that we have to be consistent. If you observe law of tithing you must observe other things that include in to it. Why we are ready to exclude all of the law of Moses, but we cannot include tithe to them what is it in the tithe that we cannot give up? Debbie, my believed is open, if anyone can show me that Jesus taught tithe or required His deciple to give thier tithes, I am ready to embrace that teaching again. In addition, if the tithe is really a requirement Jesus Christ is the first one who going do it as an example. He made himself an example when he required himself to be baptized by John because it is important to be baptize, and baptism is including in His teaching. What I really mean is if tithe is really the requirements why Jesus Christ himself did not required himsef to be an example like what He did when He asked john to baptise Him. God bless, Johnny |
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553 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22241 | ||
Charis, That is why it was mentioned in the scriptures that God loves cheerful giver. If are willing or happy with your setup of giving it is okay. If we really read the scriptures it is not the giver was made the mistake but those who requires to the members to give. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. If you can give more than 10 percent of your income it is okay but again it is not a requirements. Apostle Paul gave to the church all he got in life, he got no wife because he dedicate all of his time to serve God, he gave even his life to serve people in the glory of Jesus Christ. If we put this discussion into a pure biblical, I know you would agree, Apostle Paul gave his everything to serve people to the Glory of God but he never required anyone to give thier tithe but a guidance that God love cheerful giver. If somebody can show me that Jesus Christ taught any single word or is He required his disciple to give thier tithe, then I would agree that tithe is a requirements. Please dont get rid of me, Again thanks for a nice discussion. Johnny |
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554 | You are saved when you accept Christ . | John 3:5 | jlpangilinan | 22164 | ||
Tab123160, I really like your explaination, I am curious do you believed save is always save? Thank you, Johnny |
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555 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22161 | ||
Charis, I agree on that on your cases, but of course my answer is based on the bible. When Apostle paul taught to to the gentiles he take nothing from them. That really I admire apoetle paul what He said is: 2Co 12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong. 2Co 12:14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. If the pastors really want to serve people in Jesus name they must observe what apostle paul did. And they must prepared for the cirscumstances. Again, The head of our church (sorry for mentioning "head" we know really that the HEAD of the church is Jesus) try to expand his own source of income in order to provide needs of our churce i.e free bible for the observer and other things. All of our pastor (although we call them brothers and sisters) has his own Job and source of income (maybe yours also do the same) Charis, just to tell you the truth income of our church from the love offering cannot sustain the needs of our church, here our head of the church extend thier effort just to sustain it. It truly the love for people. Thier not complaining, of course there are sometime that they can no longer shoulder it they call us for help, like what I mentioned to you the convention center. Charis, I am not really saying that giving is wrong but my stand is tithe is really not a requirement, and it cannot justify us, as mention in the Holy scriptures. In addition if we are really observe the the tithe which is included in the law of moses we must observe all the laws that included thier otherwise we are not consistent. Mt 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. According to Jesus Christ in that verse, we have to be consistent. Thanks for very nice discussion, God bless, Johnny |
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556 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22159 | ||
Charis, The convention center is not just for our local church i am sorry not to mentioned, it was our national covention center. All local church meet thier if they can. If we have a big celebration or whatsoever we held it on that convention center so we can accomodate more people like visitors and observer. In addition, inside that convention center has a small hospital that accomadate person cannot pay amount in the hospital. This convention center also open for the people victims of flood or storm if they dont have place to go. (it is open to member or non-member of the church) Meaning we built it in purpose of course. To those gave big amount just to finish that building they are motivated to gave because the saw the effort of our founder to have that convention center. As a matter of fact our founder sold many of his own property just to fund that convention center. To finish the story, our founder asking us to help him it was almost finish may 10 percent of the building was not yet finish. Meaning it was the 10 percent of the said 20 million we are tried to source at the time. |
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557 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22154 | ||
Charis, I would like share with you some of our doctrine in our church. It was the head of our church who discourage us not to give tithe but love offering. He is the one taught us that tithe is no longer the requirements of giving. Our head of the church set as the a live example to us. He built a convention center for our church worth more than 20 million dollars in equivalent. He source the found from his own pocket considering that this convention center registered as the property of the church. When the time come that he can no longer sustain the funds because its too big for him, he asked help from us if how much we can help him because he has no money to finish the building. We contribute not all of us with no required amount. Some of us gave big and some other not give at all because they cannot afford, but it is okay. Now we have that convention center. It is the head of our church who taught us not to give tithe but love offering. It is not me or any member of our church who are not willing to gave. I am not saying that you mentioned that I am the one who dont want to give, Just explain in my own case. If you want me to try explain that believed in this forum, I will try to do so with a passages supporting to it. Thank you Johnny |
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558 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | jlpangilinan | 22152 | ||
Prayon, Me the same as you mention, I am also a tithe giver, we observe that. Even my parents I've ask them to give tithe correctly because It was taught to us of our pastor. They always use Mal 3:10 Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I am not saying that this verse is wrong it is truly right. But of course we have to consider time and event when we are reading the scriptures. As all we know it was address to the decendants of Jacob if you read Mal. 3:6 Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. But when Jesus Christ crusified we free from all this things. Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. As you mentioned you always been taught to give 10 percent of your earnings, but try those points that I mentioned to you. Maybe you can ask those to your pastors, then if you got a valid answer from him please share it to me. I am open to my believed prayon, if someone can explain to me that tithe is really the requirement so we can go to heaven I will accept that teaching again. Thank you, Johnny |
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559 | Does not tithing disqualify leadership? | Mal 3:10 | jlpangilinan | 22133 | ||
Thank you, In addition if we really observe the tithe which is included in the law of moses why we are not observe the other laws. We have to be consistent. Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. We have a new covenant. Thanks for your note. Johnny |
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560 | Was Jesus a captive? | 1 Pet 3:19 | jlpangilinan | 21948 | ||
Speakdtruth, I really like your answer to I think it was your question also. I have a friend whom belong to Jehovas Witnessess, and thier beleived that Jesus Christ Died both Body and Spirit. I would like to take this opportunity to raise this question for you and I am very greatful if you can explain my querry. First of all I would like to know if for you is the death of spirit of Jesus Christ, meaning no existence? My question are: If the spirit of Jesus Christ died how he can he preach in hell? 1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 18. 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Also it was mentioned that God cast angels into hell: 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; If Jesus Christ did not exist when He decended to hell? why the rich man exist. I dont think Jesus Christ will teach different from reality? Here in the next passages, in the parables of Jesus Christ when the rich man died he tormented in hell, meaning he exist there because he feel the fire of hell? Lu 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 22. Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 23. Lu 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. It is not a debate, I am also sometimes tormented to this kind of circumstances. speak the truth, Johnny |
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