Results 501 - 520 of 729
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Results from: Notes Author: charis Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
501 | Women involved? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 4336 | ||
Dear Nolan, I agree with your view of servanthood. We also segregate men and women in foot-washing. In my church, we do not have footwashing very often, but it is a very moving spiritual experience when we do. I rejoice with you in your relationship with your brother (cousin) Neil. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. In the Lord Jesus Christ, charis |
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502 | Communion, how often? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 4483 | ||
Dear Joe, Thank you for your answer. I guess it's time for me to 'fess up' about my thoughts on this issue. In my church we also celebrate communion once a month. Like you, I could enjoy sharing the loaf and the cup more often than that. However, I do think that for many saints more often might breed familiarity. We exclude unbelievers for obvious reasons. The eldership of my church also agrees that having children wait until they have repented and been baptized (12-15 years old) is appropriate, giving them something to strive for and hope in, an act of faith. Guests that profess Jesus as Savior are welcome to join us. We use a real loaf of uncut bread, the pastor or elder breaks it after prayer and passes it to the congregation. Each takes a portion, then passes to the next person. When all have a piece, we go to someone, offer them to take a bit of our piece, and take a bit of theirs, eat together and bless one another in Jesus' name. Then to another saint. This sharing of the bread can take some time, even in a small church, but we are not in a rush. After the bread (no set time), we drink the wine (juice) using disposable cups. We used to share the cup literally with a large chalice (I prefer this), but hygiene became an issue of contention, so we went the 'safe' route. As others have said, we believe this is a special, holy time. After singing a hymn or chorus, we end the meeting, then have a fellowship meal together. Our desire is to follow the pattern set for us in the Bible, but we hold no 'mystical' thoughts about the elements. Though they are bread and juice, they represent exactly what the Lord said they do. The broken body of Christ made whole in the sharing of the loaf, and drinking of the shed blood of Jesus to the effect of forgiveness of sins. I have much enjoyed the various comments and expressions of faith in this line of postings. Bless you, Joe, and all of you in Jesus' name, charis |
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503 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 22480 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! I truly respect your desire to please God. However, in your zeal to 're-create' the scene of the Last Supper, could it not become legalism? I must admit that I am appalled at the thought of using Oreos and Coke! :-) But I think that I would even prefer that to the notion that we are more pleasing to God for our efforts to be absolutely precise. My reasoning is that it is impossible to be absolutely precise! No matter how much you study what the Jews *usually* did, you could never know exactly what Jesus used. This is the pursuit of the Holy Grail, and futile, In my humble opinion. In my own fellowship, we pursue a 'reasonably similar' environment using 'reasonably similar' elements. While I know that this is open to a lot of variation (sometimes too much!), it IS to be done in remembrance of Christ, not reproduction of the scene. Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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504 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 22501 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! How are things in Sud Afrika? As we are saved by grace through faith, I would not expect condemnation for substituting the unfermented fruit of the vine for the fermented kind that we suppose Jesus used. This remembrance of the Lord's last meal was one of faith, not the elements themselves. If we focus on the elements themselves we can come dangerously close to attaching salvific import to them. Tim, I don't know either. I have partaken of the Lord's Supper for 20 years by faith, and I do go further than many in my attempts to mimic the enviroment, but never thought to go to the lengths you do. I do see your point, but as yet cannot agree with it. Blessings in Christ Jesus, charis |
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505 | What is the spiritual gift of faith? | 1 Cor 12:9 | charis | 923 | ||
I'll give it a try. v.7 states that the gifts are for the common good, and nine gifts are listed. It is possible there are more than nine, but to the Corinthians Paul believed these were what they needed. Each gift must be real, and effective. Apparently, they are given at the discretion of the Spirit, and possibly as a lifelong responsibility, as a service to the body of Christ. So, the gift of faith is different from saving faith (as you both stated) and seems to be a gift to the church through a chosen believer, whose ministry is to share the gift when God tells him to. This might be called the ability to help someone believe in the grace, and the power of the Lord. I do not think these gifts are the 'property' of the believer, or that can be used 'at will.' Rather, God uses said believer to bless (encourage)His people at a time chosen by God. I'm being very careful how I describe my understanding of this, because I have seen so many abuses of these gifts. Usually called 'MY' gift, and often bandied about like a 'spiritual sixgun.' Hope this answers the question. In Jesus. | ||||||
506 | why order is different in scripture? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12413 | ||
Dear Nolan, I must heartily disagree with Hank Hanegraaff on this one. (actually, there are a number of areas I do :-) I am of the opinion that the Bible Answer Man is lashing out at the abuses of spiritual Christianity when he denies the present-day manifestation of the Holy Spirit. This is a common mistake in the history of the church. One group makes a bold statement of faith, but, being natural man, stumbles in their walk. Another cites the 'stumble' as proof that the statement of faith is wrong, and comes up with several pertinent Scriptures to back up their claim of superior understanding of God. The first group then retaliates, desperately searching the Word to show they were right, consequently 'returning evil for evil.' (thereby moving away from Jesus!) Group 2 then goes on the offensive, stating that not only is Group 1 wrong, but heretical, citing the 'defense' made with emotions involved. (this is also not pleasing to Jesus!) Eventually we find both camps away from the Lord, Who has not moved one millimeter! Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever more. Man and his 'camps' are always shifting, always selfish. The Calvinism-Arminist debate on this forum is a case-in-point! Another is the Traditionalists-Charismatics polarism. The history of the church is full of these kind of things. Shame on us! Ephesians 4:11 is clear. Don't read into it what is not there, and don't explain away the wonderful gifts that God has given us. Duh! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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507 | why order is different in scripture? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12433 | ||
Dear Nolan and Forum friends, Let me say first that I am not denouncing Hank Hanegraaff or his ministry. I have great respect for the majority of his opinions. (but they are opinions. Intelligent, and thorough, but his conclusions are nevertheless opinions) I cannot at this time go through every instance of disagreement (much more agreement than disagreement, by the way), but he does seem to put emphasis on a 'finished church' because we have a finished-Bible. While I believe we have a finished-Bible, I cannot see that we have a finished-church. This is why I see a continued need for the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the ministerial gifts. That these gifts are commonly misused and abused is beside the point. The church is in need of every gift made available by God. Mr Hanegraaff states that present-day apostles and prophets must be of the quality of those in the Bible, and because they are not, they are not true apostles and prophets, therefore, there are no longer any apostles and prophets. Apostles are messengers to the church, not neccesarily bringing *new* revelation, but presenting the timeless Gospel to the church in a way that we can receive it. Indeed, if it is a *different* Gospel, we must beware! The same goes for the present-day prophets. They do not neccesarily need to be proclaiming *addendums* to the Word, and I would be leery if they did claim this ability! However, "But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation." 1 Corinthians 14:3 NASB states the work of a bona fide prophet. Mr. Hanegraaff makes present-day apostles and prophets into buffoons, cute and non-Biblical, to be ignored as eccentrics. My point is that if we explain away something written in the Bible, we lose a gift from God. In my opinion, granted not as illustrious as Mr. Hanegraaff, he has denied us present day gifts in his campaign against the abusers of the Word. Grace back to you, Nolan, and all the saints of the Forum. In Jesus' name, charis |
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508 | why order is different in scripture? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12456 | ||
Dear Nolan, You are right! In no way do I stand in judgment of Mr. Hanegraaff. He is without a doubt a wonderful teacher. He is (also) without a doubt a human being. If he were infallible, we would not need the Holy Spirit at all. There are many good Christian teachers, and it is inevitable that they would disagree on many points. Not one of them has ever even approached infallibility, as this is impossible for man. No matter how many hours of how many days, for however many years a person has studied the Word, limiting God by neutering His gifts to man is unwise. I maintain that all the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit are valid and active today, and necessary for our welfare in Christ. I contend that much of the strife and disunity we have today is from both the abuse of these, as well as the neglect of them. While my view of these gifts and ministries is decidedly conservative, to deny them altogether is irreverent. In any case, my friend(s), I harbor no ill feelings toward anyone. This is not the first time you have heard my opinions, nor is it the last! :-) I look forward to hearing your opinions, and pray that I am open to really listen. Blessings to all...in Jesus' name, charis |
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509 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12553 | ||
Dear Nolan, So now we have prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, but no apostles, right? I maintain that by 'beatifying' the apostles to the Lamb (plus Paul), we discredit the faith of ministers for two thousand years, up to the present day. Not once have I said that there is anything *new* (extra-Biblical or super-Biblical)to prophesy or reveal. Also, it is obvious that certain individuals have been given the gift of revealing the (already finished) Bible to 1) all men, 2) the church, and 3) fellow ministers. Please, tell me what the 'Biblical sense' apostle is? Is he perfect, without sin, fault, or trespass? Must he have written a book of the Bible? Must he have uttered a never-before-spoken revelation from God? If these are requirements, then several apostles in the Word are not apostles. I think that I am fighting against the opinion that 'some are false apostles, so there are no longer any apostles.' In my humble opinion, the fact that we are warned about false apostles proves that there are apostles! Finally, as to the 'lower-sense' apostle theory (number three in my April discourse), if there are indeed 'lesser' apostles, Paul and Barnabas would be categorized among them. !I know, I know! "How dare he bring Paul down to human levels!" Sorry, but that is just what I do. I think that Paul would rejoice, too! What Paul wrote was Scripture because God made it so, not because Paul was great. Not every word written by Paul was Bible, and not every action was perfect. God chose exactly what He wanted in His holy Bible, not Paul, or Peter, or any man. I contend that if we let God be true, and all men be liars, we have hope today to know his will, through the Holy Spirit, Who speaks in the Bible, and through His ministers. (and there are more ministries than just the five!) To claim that the (organized) church is now His spokesman is laughable :-) Blessings and peace. In Jesus' name, charis |
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510 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12576 | ||
Dear RCScroll, and fellow saints, To quote Nute Gunray, "You assume too much." Brother, I hold you in the highest regard. However, the argument against present-day apostolic ministry still seems to be based on a deification or beatification of the 13 (the 12 plus Matthias and Paul, minus Judas Iscariot), and the assumption that the presence of false apostles negates the presence of true apostles. Again (and again) I hear the *new* revelation requirement. Where might I find that in Scripture? In any case, I do not think that a present-day apostle must be the sort of super-person you imply he must be. I don't think that the early church apostles were the super-people some try to make out of them. Honestly, my friend, you yourself seem to claim some authority when you state that your interpretation is the correct and accepted one :-) While it may be true that the 'delivery' of the Gospel to the church is complete, the ministry of the Gospel continues. To try to differentiate between the 'office' and the ministry is just traditionalist gobbledegoop. (with all due respect) By the way, please do not try an equate my belief that of the Mormons. To do so is incendiary, and rabble-rousing, and does not become us. Never have I claimed that present-day apostles have *new* revelation knowledge or super-Biblical abilities. Indeed, the church has all that it needs to attain the unity of the faith, "...that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:17 NASB. Are you saying that we do not need ministers to bring this forth? Tell me, has the church been very successful at attaining unity? Of course, in order to make your theory work, you must assume that Barnabas, Silas, Andronicus, and Junia were present in Jerusalem at Christ's resurrection. This is assuming that there is somewhere in the Bible that requires all apostles to be eyewitnesses. Please, don't do the "We conclude..." bit. It is condescending and arrogant. You conclude, yes? Finally, I ask, are you of the 3-office group, 4-office group, or the no-office group? Personally, I don't place much importance on the 'office' or title. I think that Peter, Paul and the other saints would be appalled at their ministry to Christ and His church being labelled 'office.' Friend, it is indeed a privilege to discuss the Word with you. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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511 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12635 | ||
Dear Nolan, and saints, Peace upon you, my friend. If there is nowhere in the Bible that says "There will be no more apostles after Paul," and the Bible warns in two places to beware of false apostles, this seems to indicate that there are apostles and false apostles. You are starting your argument with the supposition that there is the 'office' of apostle, and the 'mere' gift of apostle (which is so inferior that it doesn't deserve bona fide status). This 'office' of apostle is only for a few 'super-saints,' the requirements of which are not clearly stated in the Bible. I have never read anything in the Word of God which would lead me to believe that any of these men considered themselves to be special, only humble thankgiving for having the opportunity to serve their Lord. John 10:35, Revelation 22:18-19 - As far as I can fathom, these two Scriptures harken back to the 'beware of false apostles-prophets' theme, and are not requirements that every apostle must bring forth *new* revelation. I thank you for your good advice and opinion. Indeed, 'apostolos' means 'messenger' (to the church). Is this where you suppose that it must mean 'messenger of new (never-before-heard) revelation?' Cannot this same word mean 'one who brings the (timely) message from God?' Martin Luther brought forth a message from God that was lost, and his words were considerd new and fresh. We all know that he simply spoke that which was already written in the Bible. This message, you may recall, had a great affect on the church of God. In my humble opinion, Martin Luther was a messenger of Christ, a minister of the Gospel who not only preached to his own congregation, but to other ministers, and even to me, centuries later. I do not bestow any 'office' on this man, but a ministry, a gift from the Lord through the Holy Spirit. Throughout the history of the church there have been myriads of such men, some lauded, some not. Would you prefer we call them bishops, cardinals, popes, founder-of-a-movement, or president-of-an-organized-religious-institution? I have read and re-read your last statement, and think you are saying, "There are some of the opinion that there are no longer any apostles, and some of the opinion that there still are. But all the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still available today" Well, I can't disagree with you there :-) Please note: "Therefore it says, "When He ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, And He gave gifts to men...And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers," Ephesians 4:8,11 NASB These are gifts, not 'offices.' Those receiving these gifts are servants, not 'supermen.' It is rather obvious that the church is not yet 'done.' So these gifts are still necessary. Insisting that apostles must be some kind of 'super-saint' only strips us of a gift that God gave us. Even if one has an apostolic ministry, I don't think that they should have a name card announcing themselves as 'Apostle So-and-so.' I am certain that the early church apostles would be embarrassed by the beatification and 'office' entrapment, and would deny it. Blessings to you, my friend. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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512 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12641 | ||
Dear Nolan, and saints of the Forum, No, my friend, I do not consider myself an apostle. It is possible that I may one day serve the Lord as a messenger of His tidings to a larger audience than my local church, which may (or may not) be considered apostolic in His eyes. In any case, I would not print new name cards with 'Apostle Randy' on the front :-) Just the other day, Nolan, you published my definition of apostle on this site. See below: APOSTLE (Gk. (apostolos,) a "delegate"). One sent with a special message or commission. In this sense the word is used in the LXX (1KI 14:6; ISA 18:2), and in the NT: JOH 13:16, "Neither is one (who is sent) [apostle] greater than the one who sent him"; 2CO 8:23; PHI 2:25, where persons sent out by churches on special errands are called their (apostles,) or messengers. In HEB 3:1 Jesus is called "the (Apostle) and High Priest of our confession." (New Ungers Bible Dictionary) The Bible describes 3 'types' of apostles; 1) Jesus. 2) The 'Apostles to the Lamb,' also called the 12. Matthai replaced Judas Iscariot, the only 'replacement' apostle in the Bible. 3)The 'post-ascension apostles.' Paul and Barnabas, among others, continued the ministry of 'special commissions' between churches. Sometimes these are referred to as the 'lower sense' of the apostolic ministry. I believe this continues today, although often misinterpreted and abused. I do not think that the present-day apostle equals the missionary, as I know too many missionaries that do not fit the Bible's description. However, some missionaries may well be working in an apostolic calling. end quote Friend, it is the (organized) church I find laughable. I am sorry you did not catch my irony. The church is far from organized! You may have a high opinion of your local church or denomination, but the world thinks that the church is a joke for their tainted history, disunity, pettiness and even war. It is only by grace that we continue to be used for His glory. Not one person was saved by a denomination or religious institution. Every soul called by Jesus was saved by grace, not 'truth in the church' or scholarly advice. My 'disdain for denominations' only applies when I see the gifts of the Holy Spirit replaced by professionals holding 'office' in the church. By the way, no one, as yet, has answered how we can conveniently dispose of one or two gifts, but retain the others. Blessings to you, my friend. In Jesus' name, charis |
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513 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12650 | ||
Dear Tim, and Prayon, Excuse me for butting in... As I understand it, you interpret the word 'messenger' as 'revealer,' and that the revelation must be on par with God's Word, so therefore there are no more apostles or prophets, because the canon is finished. Is that fair? But why must every message be revelatory? When you preach a sermon, do you not use modern illustration and anecdote to portray the Gospel? Strictly speaking, you are 'adding' what the Holy Spirit led you to add. Are you then blaspheming? I don't think so. I think that the church has artificially elevated the ministry of apostle and prophet to an 'office,' and that we come close to worshipping these simple, humble men of God. ( Paul put away his 'office' when he renounced his Pharisee background ) They were ministers and servants used by God. They performed His work. God continues to call His servants to do the same thing, minus the writing of the Bible. (where does it say that apostles and prophets have to write books of the Bible?) Indeed, my fellow servant, anyone who claims to have *new revelation* is false. But you won't hear much about the true apostles and prophets, because they are just serving their God in the calling He chose. God wrote the Bible, not apostles and prophets. God continues to use His anointed ministers. My friend, though there are many abusers of this title, there are even more faithful to His calling. Please do not use the example of the abusers to deny the church of His chosen ministers. This would lead us to say that false pastors (wolves) negates true pastors. Frankly, your last paragraph was sensationalism at best, and fallacious logic at worst :-) What a generalization! Pastors asking for new cars (in the Holy Spirit) will impregnate our children! My question must be, "Was he independent or part of a denomination?" Tim, this kind of abuse has been with us regardless of *revelation knowlege* or any bias! Exalted 'office-holders' have committed such acts and worse since the beginning. How do we argue with false ministers? We don't. We stay away, and preach the Word. We advise the saints to discern truth as written in the Bible. We encourage one another to search for truth, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us personally in His Word, and through His chosen messengers. The two will agree. Again, pardon my intrusion. (But this IS a forum :-) In Jesus' name, charis |
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514 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12654 | ||
Dear Tim, I have already written a lot on this subject (maybe too much?), so I will try not to duplicate. I am not with 'those who are promoting the "five-fold ministry."' (in fact, I am very much against these abusers and pretenders) I am only asking that the Holy Spirit give us the benefit of every gift and ministry that He has so graciously provided. I cannot specifically deny any of these gifts, nor can I 'promote' God's servants to 'special' status. Certain of Paul's (and Peter's, and John's, etc.) writings were chosen by God to be our Bible. I would find it hard to believe they wrote nothing else, or that every word they wrote was the Word, which would imply that God lost them. I still cannot figure out the 'office' and 'function' difference. Are not these but service to God? Actually, I would say that there are more than five ministries unto our Lord and His saints. Blessings, my friend, in Jesus' name! charis |
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515 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12656 | ||
Dear Ed, Exactly my point! :-) (a bit of irony, my friend) The fact that this minister had a *revelation* had nothing to do with his sin! By the way, please DO butt in any time! In Jesus, charis |
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516 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12668 | ||
Dear Joe! Sorry, my friend, but this sounds just like more of the same. The presence of abusers and pretenders does not negate the presence of of God's true servants. Please read "The New Foxe's Book of Martyrs" and tell me that no one has shown forth the same anointing as the early saints. Though we may not be able to claim the same 'amount,' the service to God remains the same. Finally, I do not know what the false apostles are saying, but I, for one, believe that we have had all of God's ministries working in the church since it's creation by the Holy Spirit. That Martin Luther did not consider himself an apostle with a capital 'A' is a point in his favor. That he did indeed have a 'message' that was lost, and boldly proclaimed a Christ that was missing from the 'Christian' church of his age speaks of apostolic ministry. (not 'office') By the way, Joe, I agree with you about the modern 'show-apostles' and the false revival, complete with smoke and mirrors. :-) Indeed, the Holy Spirit is alive and working in His church in every gift and ministry! But the true apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (and other ministries) have no need of an 'office,' a 'calling card,' or a prime-time slot on 'Christian' TV. Peace unto you, in Jesus' name, charis |
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517 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12670 | ||
Dear Joe! Yes, it seems almost like Martin Luther was human, huh? (as I recall, the 12 were pretty human, too :-) 'Non-denominational denomination!' I like that! :-) I can't speak for anybody else, so I don't know about 'anti-denominational bias that leads to rejection of cooperative efforts with denominational churches,' but I have first-hand experience with the other way round. Many denominations are not very cooperative with 'non-aligned' ministries, too, my friend. I see a distinct polarization in this issue. Either a total rejection of two key ministerial gifts of the Holy Spirit (often accompanied by a rejection of certain manifestational gifts), or a irresponsible, abusive perversion of these gifts. I, myself, prefer a place near Jesus, embracing all of the gifts He has made available, without embellishment or human 'modernization.' Blessings and peace, Joe! In Jesus, charis |
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518 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12674 | ||
Dear Joe! I know that you don't like the word 'restore' because a lot of idiots are using it to declare their agenda. But is not 'to bring back to it's original state' what Martin Luther (through the holy Spirit) helped to bring about? Other words bandied about are 'revival' and 'renewal.' The words themselves are Biblical, but the negative connotation seems to get you boiling :-) Of course Martin Luther did not 're-create' it with something *new.* But he did bring a 'message' from God to a church that had forgotten the message of the Gospel. By the way, are you saying that the 'reformed' church is different (better) from what God originally planned in the early church? As in a New, New Testament Church? Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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519 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12682 | ||
Dear Nolan, I appreciate your additional 'points of view!' :-) It seems that there is agreement that there are specific 'Apostles,' i.e. the Twelve (Matthias as the only replacement), and the 'general meaning' apostles, a.k.a. 'broader' sense, a.k.a. 'lesser' sense apostles. Are these not bona fide, Biblical, apostles? (albeit not the Twelve, and without the capital 'A') Is this not the gift-ministry spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4? Oops, time to go! Blessings, brother! In Jesus' name, charis |
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520 | What is a false prophet? | 1 Cor 14:3 | charis | 68819 | ||
Dear Nate, Greetings in Jesus' name! Trust me, my friend, you are not the only one 'dazed and confused' by the antics of those claiming 'gifts and powers' of the Holy Spirit! I believe in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit and callings to ministry described in the New Testament. But so many add extra 'meaning' and 'zing' to these God-given blessings, usually to the glory (and pocket!) of the charismatic fellow with the microphone. Talk about 'propheteering!' :-) All gifts and ministries are for the glory of God and His church!! I look forward to hearing more from you, both questions AND answers! Bless you in your quest for truth and peace... In Christ Jesus, charis |
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