Results 3321 - 3340 of 3692
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: Makarios Ordered by Verse |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
3321 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 32801 | ||
Glad to hear it, my friend! Of course, I really didn't think that you would go to such an extreme, but some might think of such a plan. I agree, charis's post was an excellent one with good advice- just to keep it 'out of reach.' :-) | ||||||
3322 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 32807 | ||
Greetings Fellow Forum Faithful! Here is a chance to voice your displeasure of the release of the TNIV! We have a chance to give Zondervan and the International Bible Society the truth about our views and about the fact that they have indeed broken their promise (on May 27, 1997) to "forego all plans to develop a revised edition of the NIV." (http://www.cbmw.org/resources/articles/niv/pressrelease.html) You can write an e-mail to IBS by clicking on "Feedback" at http://www.tniv.info, or writing to them: IBS International Headquarters 1820 Jet Stream Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80921 Phone: (719) 488.9200 (7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. MST) Zondervan 5300 Patterson SE Grand Rapids, MI 49530 Phone: 616-698-6900 E-mail: media.relations@zondervan.com Thanks to Hank for providing me with the above contact information. Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3323 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 32881 | ||
wak, Would you mind explaining what you have written a little more clearly? Makarios |
||||||
3324 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 32979 | ||
wak, I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit, or prayer, led them to renege on their commitment of abandoning all plans on publishing an NIV with gender-inclusive language. Can you explain that? I cannot imagine how lying to the evangelical world as a whole cannot be considered as a "worldly decision", unless you can find an instance in the Bible where we should lie to each other concerning God's Word. To seek worldly gain (money, wealth) rather than the approval of God is a worldly decision indeed! - Makarios |
||||||
3325 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 32996 | ||
Steve, I disagree with you, and I am at odds with you on this issue. It is obvious that both the NIVI and the TNIV are both "gender-inclusive", using inclusive language within their text. There is little difference between them, and you are wrong in your definition of the NIVI and in describing "inclusive language." Go to http://www.cbmw.org/ to get a listing of all of the mistranslated passages in the TNIV. Only one who does not know English would not know that the words "He", "man", or "him" in certain instances have a universal meaning. And a literal translation will reflect this, not seek to change it! I cannot see supporting Zondervan or the IBS in any way as being a reputable service, since they have reversed their plans 180 degrees from what they had promised us before. And our host has many more publishers than just Zondervan! - Makarios |
||||||
3326 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33001 | ||
I most certainly agree, Hank! :-) As I've said before: If they are so convinced that their NIV is incurably flawed (only after 24 years of its inception and becoming the bestselling Bible on the market) then who are we to argue with them? Thats enough persuasion for me to realize that they are publishing both NIVs at the same time only for monetary gain, and to never contribute to their organization again by boycotting their translations and study materials. In all honesty, my top two Bibles, the NASB and the ESV, are both produced by not-for-profit organizations, and I rejoice in that fact, having faith in both of those translation committees that their intentions were in the right place! As you well know, my friend, it is not just you and I who feel this way, but 20 well-distinguished Biblical scholars have also put their names to petition and have stated that they simply cannot endorse the TNIV (http://www.baptistpress.com). And they only waited 2 days after the Announcement by IBS and Zondervan to sign that petition! :-) That is what I call "quick action", and I am thankful that we have those scholars to speak for the church in protecting God's Word, in which He will preserve forever! Blessings to you my friend, Makarios |
||||||
3327 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33009 | ||
wak, You can read it for yourself at http://www.cbmw.org/resources/articles/niv/pressrelease.html If you say that the TNIV is a "gender-accurate" Bible instead of a "gender-neutral" Bible, then you are not entirely being truthful, since The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood lists 100 inaccuracies alone in the TNIV that largely have to do with gender-inclusive language! (http://www.cbmw.org/) Don't go here, just go there to see all of the inaccuracies. Also, if you claim that the TNIV is a "gender-accurate" version instead of a "gender-inclusive" version, then how do you explain the fact that 26 well-known Biblical scholars have stated that they are unable to endorse this version for use by the church? (http://www.baptistpress.com) If you only look at the complete NT text of the TNIV (http://www.tniv.info), you will see for yourself that it fits the definition for what a 'gender-inclusive' language is: seeking to use gender inclusive language in places where the text is referring to a universal meaning, rather than keeping the gender affinity sensitive to the leading of the original languages themselves. You can assume all that you want. But the fact of the matter is: the IBS is not a non-profit organization. - Makarios |
||||||
3328 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33035 | ||
Comparing the Use of Inclusive Language in the Bible __________________________________________________ Traditional Versions ********************************** King James Version (KJV) - Contains absolutely no verses where "man" is rendered as "person" with a plural construction, etc.. New King James Version (NKJV) - Contains 2 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense (Lev. 24:17a [Hebrew 'ish'], John 6:10a [Greek 'anthropos']), and contains 2 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun (Judg. 17:6 [Hebrew 'ish'], Psalm 62:12 [Hebrew 'ish']). New American Standard Bible (NASB) - Contains 2 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense (John 6:10a [Greek 'anthropos'], James 1:19 [Greek 'anthropos']), and contains one single verse where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun (Ex. 33:8 [Hebrew 'ish']). Revised Standard Version (RSV) - Contains 3 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense (Exodus 12:4 [Hebrew 'ish'], John 4:28b [Greek 'anthropos'], John 6:10a [Greek 'anthropos']). New International Version (NIV) - Contains 17 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains 7 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. (Verses and Greek/Hebrew available upon request.) Gender-Inclusive Versions ****************************************** New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) - Contains 97 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains 3 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. (Too many to list here.) New International Version, Inclusive Language Edition (NIVI) - Contains 94 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains 2 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. New Century Version (NCV) - Contains 92 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains 5 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. Good News Bible (GNB) - Contains 90 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains 2 verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. Contemporary English Version (CEV) - Contains 97 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains no verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. New Living Translation (NLT) - Contains 93 verses where "man" is rendered inclusively, or in a plural sense, and contains no verses where an inclusive term is followed by a masculine resumptive pronoun. * Verses and Greek/Hebrew words were not listed for the NIV, NRSV, NIVI, NLT, CEV, NCV, and GNB due to length. I posted this information so that we could gain a better grasp of the differences in translation that are exhibited in each different Bible Version. Blessings to you, Makarios * Above information taken from pages 205-214 of "Distorting Scripture? The Challenge of Bible Translation and Gender Accuracy" by Mark L. Strauss, 1998, InterVarsity Press |
||||||
3329 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33070 | ||
Greetings, Steve! Yes! I most certainly have read both the NIVI and the TNIV! :-) I do not come all too "unprepared" to support my point of view, and I do not base my conclusions upon baseless emotions, but what I have found as fact. I am prepared to debate about either version, the NIVI and the TNIV, and I am able to quote from both to some extent. However, If you ask if I have read them in their 'entirety', then no, I haven't read them both all the way through. However, I have scrutinized and analyzed them both to the point where I know enough to make a valid judgement on them. Have you read either the NIVI or the TNIV??? - Makarios |
||||||
3330 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33071 | ||
Greetings, Steve, How, may I ask, do you define the terms "gender-inclusive" and "gender-neutral"??? - Makarios |
||||||
3331 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33072 | ||
Thats an excellent suggestion, Steve! You should read both the TNIV and NIVI for yourself! Then, perhaps you can tell us your point of view. Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3332 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33092 | ||
Greetings again, Steve, I believe that we must understand the subject of just what exactly "gender-inclusive" language is. "Gender-inclusive" language is language that seeks to avoid masculine terminology when the original author was referring to both sexes. I'm pretty sure that both you and I agree with this definition. Therefore, a Bible can still be considered a "gender-inclusive" version and not change the names of the different Persons of the Trinity. A 'bible' that changes the different names of the Persons of the Trinity is a 'Feminist' Version. Some feminists believe that a truly inclusive version goes beyond the author's meaning, which is bound to his culture and worldview, and reinterprets the text in order to draw out its contemporary significance. And, unfortunately, some feminist versions of the Bible go so far as compromising the names of the Persons of the Trinity. The feminist 'versions' DO compromise the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The gender inclusive versions do not make an overt effort to compromise the names of Deity. Examples of feminist versions include: An Inclusive Language Lectionary (ILL, 1983); The New Testament and Psalms: An Inclusive Version (NTPI, 1995); and The Inclusive New Testament (INT, 1994). So, while you are correct that the TNIV is not a feminist version, the TNIV still remains a "gender-inclusive" or "gender-neutral" version, based upon the fact that it seeks to avoid masculine terminology when the translators perceived that the original author was referring to both sexes. However, I would say that the TNIV has gone even farther from just seeking to change a few masculine forms in the text, and evidence of this can be seen in 100 different places in the TNIV's text at http://www.cbmw.org. If you would like to view a history of the "gender-inclusive" language debate and see how it got started in the first place, then view this link, which is excellent: http://www.bible-researcher.com/inclusive.html If you have any more questions, then the following link should be most helpful: http://www.bible-researcher.com/links02.html If you would like to gain a perspective of the debate from the NRSV's perspective, then surf here: http://www.adoremus.org/396-ScripConfus.html And for even more on "gender-inclusive" language, here's another good article to read on the subject at Christianity Today: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/9td/9td083.html All of the links above should help you gain an excellent perspective on the 'gender-inclusive' debate and where it stands now. Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3333 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33099 | ||
Greetings Steve, We never stated that we hated Zondervan. We do not "hate" Zondervan. However, we are "boycotting" the TNIV and we are expressing our displeasure to Zondervan and IBS for coming out with this "gender-inclusive" rendition of the NIV when they so succinctly promised in 1997 that they would not do so. We are hurt and feel betrayed. Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3334 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33107 | ||
Greetings Steve, I do not see any difference in the two terms: "gender-inclusive" and "gender-neutral".. I believe that these new gender inclusive versions have been linked closely to the current debate over the role of women in the church and in the home. This controversy pits egalitarians, who believe that men and women should share equal leadership roles in the church and the home, against complementarians, who argue for distinct and complementing roles for men and women. Egalitarians claim that their position reflects the biblical perspective of full equality of both sexes before God. Complementarians point to biblical texts that affirm male leadership and view the issue as a culture war between those who respect the roles that God has ordained and radical feminists pushing a social agenda. I believe that this whole "gender-inclusive" issue has its roots in the women's rights movement, and I am a Complementarian who believes that the Word of God should not be changed to fit society, but society should be changed to fit the Word of God. The TNIV may not be guilty of compromising the name of God, and I have not accused the TNIV of doing this. However, there are at least 100 mistranslations, many of which I have read myself, that are included within the NT text alone of the TNIV! And at least 26 reknowned Biblical scholars agree with me that the TNIV is not suitable for use by the church. So not only does the TNIV use "gender-neutral" or inclusive language, but it goes a step further, and I call that irresponsible translation. Also, since it is so clear that the TNIV is a 'gender-neutral' or inclusive version, then that alone serves as evidence that Zondervan and the IBS totally reversed their statement in 1997 regarding any future revisions of the NIV in "gender-neutral" or inclusive language 180 degrees! Either they flat out lied to us, or they chose not to honor their promise. Also, I am still seeking answers as far as why Zondervan and IBS is planning to distribute the NIV and TNIV alongside each other, since the TNIV is not a brand new translation, but it is a revision of the NIV text (7 percent of the text was changed). Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3335 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33121 | ||
Greetings my friend! You are quite welcome! I am thankful that such websites exist that help us find the truth. Your Brother in Christ, Makarios |
||||||
3336 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33140 | ||
Steve, Your post is simply not worthy of a response. Have you actually been following this thread, or will you continue to resort to sarcasm and insults? - Makarios |
||||||
3337 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33141 | ||
Too bad for you it just happens to be the truth, wak. - Makarios |
||||||
3338 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33200 | ||
Greetings, Steve! I appreciate the fact that you have seen this discussion as a crusade to protect Zondervan's and the International Bible Society's names from being tarnished! However, nothing less than a statement or action from the organizations themselves will help us to begin to answer our questions and to begin to see these organizations in a "trusting" light again. It was much different when they came out with the NIVI. However, at that time, the NIV was (and still is) THE most popular Bible translation, and the only translation that has came the closest in usurping the supremacy of the KJV as the popular translation of choice. Evangelicals have adopted the NIV as "their own." And they have done this to a degree that no other translation has enjoyed except the KJV. When the NIVI came out, it was out of shock that they would seek to change the NIV so quickly. However, even with that in mind, I remained "silent" in that debate, since (in my mind) it was like the NRSV or the NLT coming out. And if you saw my "comparison chart" that I posted the other day, you would see that the NRSV and the NLT, among other translations, are fluent with "gender-inclusive" or "gender-neutral" language. The only translations that do not overly contain "gender-neutral" language are the "traditional" translations, such as the KJV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, RSV, and the original NIV. I have yet to examine the ESV and the HCSB in the case of "gender-neutral" language, but my guess is that they will prove themselves true as well. However, the announcement of the TNIV is much different. First of all, it comes only five years after Zondervan/IBS came out with a statement that they were going to abandon all plans in publishing a revised edition of the NIV containing gender-inclusive language. Evangelicals "assumed" that Zondervan/IBS "got the message" and had learned just how much we had embraced this translation, the NIV, and that it was very uniquely special and important to keep it the way it is! My friend, the reaction amongst evangelical scholars (with the introduction of the NIVI) was hardly any different than the reaction of KJV Only advocates when they are approached with an NIV. However, what evangelicals "stand for" is in much contrast to that of KJV Only advocates: Evangelicals such as myself do not see any need for "gender-inclusive" language to be introduced into the Bible. We believe that the NIV was/is exceptional just the way that it is! Has the English language really changed to the point that we must update the NIV, a translation that has only enjoyed 24 years of existance? Second of all, why release the TNIV and the NIV side by side if the NIV is so flawed and outdated? If the TNIV is really a 'revision' of the NIV, then why not cease publication of the present NIV (1984), update it, and come out with a new NIV (2002) with a new copyright? And why even attempt to do this only five years after the debacle with the NIVI? It seems very clear to me that Zondervan/IBS does not want to lose the sales of the NIV (and it would most assuredly do so if the NIV itself was given a new copyright and introduced gender-inclusive language), and it also seems clear to me that they are "playing to the crowd" by introducing the TNIV. Either way, the only "profit" I see is in the dollars. They should rest their pens and sit back to watch the NIV make its place in history, instead of jeopardizing the longevity of the NIV by somehow making themselves "untrustworthy." If the NIV is somehow "flawed", then who are we to argue? But the truth of the matter is is that the NIV is not as "flawed" as the TNIV supporters make it out to be. That is why we have taken our stance, and why we have chosen to boycott Zondervan/IBS: we believe that introducing "gender-specific" or "gender-neutral" language into the Biblical text should not be done, since the whole idea stems itself from the women's rights movement, and society should not directly effect what we put in or how we translate the Bible. Steve, unless you are a member of the board at Zondervan/IBS, then you will not be able to sufficiently answer our questions, and you will not be able to "win" this crusade by convincing us. Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3339 | Good-bye, NIV | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 33325 | ||
Excellent comments, my friend! I have just written Zondervan, and I didn't hold anything back! :-) Blessings to you, Makarios |
||||||
3340 | Is the ASV equal to the NASB? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Makarios | 216633 | ||
Greetings Tim, Thank you for the textual note on 1 Cor. 2:13, which does indeed shed some light on this verse that seems to vary from translation to translation. So we are not sure exactly what 'pneumatikois pneumatika sunkrinontes' means? If the formal equivalence is not quite on target or cannot provide a clear answer, then would this be an example of where dynamic equivalence might be the best answer? Your Brother in Christ, Makarios |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 ] Next > Last [185] >> |