Results 241 - 260 of 629
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Results from: Notes Author: Lionstrong Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
241 | Animal Intelligence Isn't Rational | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 73015 | ||
Yes, that's it Wolfe! Thanks, I'm glad someone reads these old posts. I had fun posting them. And Welcome to the Forum! Peace, |
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242 | Distiction in "will" not "rationality" | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 153971 | ||
Hi Doc, I think your criticism of my conclusion is that it is not broad enough. And I concur. The Scripture supports your view of the image of God. The Apostle Paul says, " ...and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth." Eph 4:24. We see here that the image includes righteousness, holiness and truth. The image includes knowledge as well, for Paul says, "... and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--" (Col 3:10) My conclusion was not an attempt to give a full answer to what the image of God is, but to show that it is not the will. But having said that, the answer of rationality is a pretty broad answer in itself. This is so because without a rational mind none of the other attributes in your list ("moral, spiritual, mental, and relational aspects") is possible. Lastly, the image of God has nothing to do with man's body, for God is a spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a body. |
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243 | Distiction in "will" not "rationality" | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154010 | ||
Ps 94:9 He who planted the ear, does He not hear? He who formed the eye, does He not see? Hi Doc, I apologize in advance for this quick answer. If a thing possesses a degree of the image of God, then to that extent it is the image of God, which is why it is false that animals are the image of God. Man only is image God. Never in Scripture is the image ascribed to animals. Nor is the body of man or animals the image of God, and so, the sense organs of the body are not the image of God. God, who made the sense organs, perceives without them. If we die before Jesus returns, we will be with the Lord and perceive him without sense organs. Both animals and man perceive, but we perceive and understand what we perceive. Animal perceive but they have no understanding. So, perception is not the image of God. The image of God is rationality. And thanks for the correction. God is spirit. Iron sharpens iron! |
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244 | Isn't the main point volition | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154035 | ||
Matt 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being ("living soul" KJV). Hi Mark, It is the KIND of spirit that God created man with that sets him apart from the rest of creation. Man's spirit, the breath God breathed into man's body and into no other creature, is a unique spirit. Man's spirit is the image of God. Man's spirit is a rational mind which the animals do not possess. It is not that we have spirits and the animals do not. It is that our spirit is the image of God and therefore rational, and the animal spirits are not. So, I agree with the wording of your question, though you may not have meant it that way. "Was it the spirit that God created man with that sets him apart?" Yes, Man was created with a rational spirit after the image of God. The spirits of animals were not created this way. And they do not think; they are not rational; they are not personal. |
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245 | Distiction in "will" not "rationality" | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154427 | ||
Hi Doc! Getting back to the topic of this thread, if animals reason, and if man (not animals) is the image of God, then the image of God does not include reason. If the image of God included reason, then animals also are made in God's image. It may be true that "It is commonly understood today that some animals actually do reason", but so called common understanding is not the basis of a biblical view of man and beast. Animals are unresaoning creatures of instinct (2 Pet 2:12) and man is the image of God (1 Cor 11:7). 2 Pet 2:12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 1 Cor 11:7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. |
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246 | Distiction in "will" not "rationality" | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 154428 | ||
Hi Bob! Do animals choose or not? You now say that they do, but that they don't make the _kind_ of choices man does. If choice is based on volition, then animals have it, because they make choices. And so man is not distinguished from the beasts by his ability to choose but by the kind of choices he makes. May I submit that the difference in kind is because animals do _not_ have (and Scripture says they do not have) reason. Man can make a reasoned choice; animals only make instinctive choices. The image of God is reason, the ability to use logic, to think discursively. By having a rational mind in the image of God man can know the commands of God. Man is moral by virtue of reason. Animals cannot sin, are amoral because not having a rational mind in the image of God they cannot know or understand the commands of God. It is the image of God that distinguishes the creature man from other earthly creatures, and the image of God is not volition but rationality, by which we can make rational choices, moral or otherwise, and the animals can't. |
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247 | Two Out of Three Ain’t Bad? | Gen 3:5 | Lionstrong | 23779 | ||
Two Out of Three Ain’t Bad? The devil wrapped the lie that he wanted Eve to believe in two truths, namely, that God knew that she would be enlightened (v. 7) and that God knew that she would become like God knowing good and evil (v. 22). Getting people to believe a lie by delivering it with some truth is one of the devils schemes of which we should not be ignorant. 2 Cor. 2:11 in order that no advantage be taken of us by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his schemes. Eph. 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. Peace, Lionstrong, a.k.a. LooseCannon |
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248 | What was Eve's sin? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5410 | ||
Hank, Thank you for your questions. Lionstrong, are you saying that we no longer have free will to choose,...? Yes, in the way our first parents were. We are so corrupted by the fallen nature we inherited from them that, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING, THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS; WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS; THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN. THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES." (Rom 3:10-18) This is the human condition, and with our fallen nature these are the choices we make. "or that because of our fallen nature, we do not have it (free will) to the extent that Adam and Eve did before the fall?" Yes, but as you see above, that's putting it mildly. "Is it any harder, or easier, to resist temptation today than it was for Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden?" I don't think this one needs an answer, but... Before our first parents fell everything they did was perfectly righteous. But now even "all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment" (Isa 64:6) "How does the Bible speak on this issue?" We were spiritually dead. All our choices were the choices of the spiritually dead. God raised us up spiritually. We had to be born again. (Ehp 2, Jn 3). As in physical birth, and Jesus raising someone from death, the one borne and the one raised had no choice in the matters. Jesus begins and finishes our faith (Heb 12:2). Love is a choice and we love Him BECAUSE He first loved us. (1 Jn 4:19) We chose to come only when God drew us (Jn 6:44). We chose to repent only when God graciously granted it (Act 11:18, 2 Tim 2:25) Again, we don't have the freedom our first parents had because our wills were bound and burdened by sin and we were its slaves. The Father drew us to the Savior, otherwise we would not have come, and Jesue sets us free (Mat 11:28, Jn 8:34-36). Lionstrong |
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249 | What was Eve's sin? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5481 | ||
Prov 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another. John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. Hank, These two verses express my view of the use of this forum. You all know that there are very different opinions among true believers in this forum (whether you count me as one is up to you). I see the forum as a place where I can express my opinions (not in an argumentative or malicious way, though God knows I'm fully capable of being that way) and have other Bible believers either sharpen my views or show me from Scripture where I'm wrong, and trust God to grant me repentance if I am wrong. I enjoy this forum. I'm not here to be controversial, and I'm here for the benefit of clarifying my beliefs, coming to one mind with other believers, and to be a sharpening tool for others. In Him who is our peace, Lionstrong |
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250 | What was Eve's sin? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5502 | ||
Hi Joy, Good to meet you. Looks like my comments got you out of the spectator stands! My thoughts on Gen 3:6 were just that, thoughts. If you've read them you'll see that the tone wasn't inflamatory or controversial. As you read on you'll see that I don't believe that the will of fallen man is free. This view is held by many member of the forum. I'm of the opinion that as believers we can talk about our differences without becoming hostile towards each other. That is my hope for this forum. We may not persuade the other to our side, but at least if we are "quick to hear and slow to speak" we can have a clearer view of what our positions are and how we support it (or don't support it) from Scripture. If one feels my comments foolish, supid, divisive, unhealthy, or (God forbid) blasphemous, then he's free not to "have anything to do with" it and move on. Apparently Hank and I have reached an impass. That's OK. Maybe we'll do better next time, God willing. I'd be happy to meet with him on some other topic or verse. The Lord grant you grace and peace. Lionstrong |
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251 | What was Eve's sin? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5504 | ||
Thanks jim for your support, but I don't actually think it would be sad if we all agreed on the truth. I think unity of mind is what Jesus was praying for (Jn 17). And I think that this forum can be an instrument to that end. Yes we're all on the road to meeting God (2 Cor 5:10) The question is will we stand before him clothed in our own good works (Isa 64:6), or in the robes of the finished work and righteousness of the Second Person of the Trinity alone? Thanks, Lionstrong |
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252 | Were Eve's desires sinful? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5516 | ||
Hi Radioman, Thanks for you thoughts on "limited?" free will. Lionstrong |
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253 | What was Eve's sin? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 5523 | ||
Thanks, Jim. Sin and temptation are the subject of my thoughts on Gen 3, as you have rightly mentioned, Jim. I think her desires were not the sin. The only command God had given was "don't eat this fruit." So when Eve said "Yes" to God's "No," that's when the sin occured. Now I precisely chose Eve because she was NOT like us. You see, we were born sinners. So we can't help but sin. I chose Eve because she was like Chirst, sinless. She was not created sinful. There was nothing wrong with her. She was not flawed. So I think her desires were not sinful. She saw that the fruit was good for food. Nothing sinful about that. She saw that it was desirable to make one wise. Nothing wrong with wanting to be wise. She saw that the tree was beautiful. Nothing wrong with an appriciation for beauty. I think we need not nor should not try to find more evil in Eve's behavior. It was enough that she disobeyed God's explicit command not to eat the fruit of that tree. Although we deserve to die for our sins, God has provided a way of escape. Like I said, Jesus was not a sinner. He was the ONLY man who deserved to go to heaven, but instead he was put to death on a cruel cross. He didn't die because he was a sinner. He wasn't a sinner. He was perfectly righteous. He didn't die because he was a sinner. He died to take the place of sinners. God proved that this is so by raising Jesus from the grave on the third day after Jesus died. And now what God tells us to do to escape the death that we deserve for our sins is to change our minds (repent) about trying to work hard to be good enough to go to heaven, and believe that he raised the Lord Jesus Christ, His Son from the grave. If we do this God will give us eternal life and not send us to hell for our sins. This is the first step in a walk of obedience to the Lord. Thank you for your encouragement, Jim. Lionstrong |
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254 | Were Eve's desires sinful? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 92786 | ||
Thanks for your thoughts and questions, Aixon. What does it mean to be tempted? Whatever it means to be tempted it does not necessarily mean sin. Jesus, a true man, was truly tempted to sin, but his experience of being in the state of being tempted was not sin on his part. If being tempted is sin, then Christ sinned. We know this is not so. Therefore being tempted is not sin. Temptation occurs when we are "carried away and enticed" by our own lusts, says James. (James 1:12-15) While I do not like the sound of this especially when applied to Christ, James is talking about how sin comes forth. Jesus did not lust, but it is when lust has conceived that it gives birth to sin. I think this figurative language means that it is when we have said "yes" to our sinful desires that we have committed further sin. James deals specifically with lust, but the more general truth is that to be tempted is to desire something that the fulfilling of which will RESULT in sin. There is a difference between desire and lust that I will mention later. And let us also be very clear on what sin is. Sin is not "whatever is not of faith." Whatever is not of faith is sin, yes. (Rom. 4:23) But it is not the definition of sin. That which proceeds from unbelief is a violation of one of God's commands. It is a particular sin. Murder is sin, but like "whatever is not of faith," murder is not a definition of, but a particular instance of sin. Now one can define sin by listing all the commands of God that can be broken. Not believing God is sin; making idols for worship is sin, having another God, not keeping the Sabbath, not honoring your folks, etc. But a good definition is that sin is any lack of conformity to or transgression of the law of God. Now to Eve, when did she cross the sin line? My contention is that it was not crossed when she was tempted or when she desired the wisdom, nourishment or beauty of the fruit. The proof if this is in the transgression God charged them to be guilty of. "And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat? ...Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed..." etc. (Gen. 3:11, 17.) Adam was charged with transgressing the express command concerning the forbidden fruit. He was not charged for having desires that the fruit could fulfill. Eve sinned when she sinned, that is, she sinned when she transgressed the express law of God forbidding her not to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The prohibition to not touch the fruit was not God's command, nor did He sight it as a violation when he charged them. I think the prohibition was a precaution issued by Adam her lord (I Pet. 3:6) and husband and head of the human race. My contention is that beauty, wisdom and nourishment are legitimate desires, and God did not forbid these desires. There are sinful desires. God says do not commit adultery, and a person may desire to do so. When a desire is sinful it is called lust by which we are carried away and enticed. But in the case of Eve, what was her desire? Was it to eat the forbidden fruit or to gain wisdom? Was eating the fruit her aim, her purpose, her desire, or was it a means to an end? Her desire was wisdom, and Satan tricked her into fulfilling her legitimate desires by an illegitimate means. You pointed out yourself that God wants us to want wisdom and acquire it. But I differ with you on the issue of wanting to be as wise as God is. Was it wrong to want to be like God knowing good and evil? First of all, they were already like God. God created man in his own image. Yes, before the fall their "eyes were not yet opened," but nonetheless they were already the image and likeness of God. (Gen. 1:26,27) And who is to say that it was not God's purpose to eventually open man's eyes and give him the knowledge of good and evil? After all the sign of a mature Christian is his ability to discern between good and evil. In Hebrews 5:14 we read, "But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil." Add to this the Father's purpose to conform us to the image of Christ. (Rom. 8:29) "We are to grow up IN ALL ASPECTS into Him who is the head, even Christ," writes Paul. (Eph 4:15) (My caps) Christ himself is the wisdom of God and in him "are hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." (Col. 2:3)(My caps) Further, Paul affirms that we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:16) So to say that it is wrong to desire to be as wise as God is when He himself seems intent on making us so seems to be incorrect if not counterproductive. |
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255 | Were Eve's desires sinful? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 92891 | ||
Thanks, Aixen, I think you made some very good observations. I'd like to make one correction and ask one question. In your fifth paragraph you assumed that I meant the image of God endowed man with the knowledge of good and evil. I did not mean that. I said one question, but the one forces a second and maybe a third or more. Hebrews says, "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin." (4:15.) In your next to last paragraph you said some confusing things. You said Jesus was not tempted (to sin) and Jesus was tempted (by Satan). (1) What does it mean, Jesus was tempted? (2) For that matter, what does it mean to be tempted? (3) What was Jesus tempted by Satan to do, if it was not to sin? (4) Hebrews says that Jesus was tempted, but are you saying that although the devil was TRYING to tempt Jesus, Jesus was not tempted? (4) So, if the devil failed to tempt Jesus, and Jesus was tempted according to Hebrews, then does Hebrews mean that Jesus was not tempted, but that all kinds of attempts were made to tempt him? (4b) Is this how you interpret the Hebrews passage? I won't press you any farther on this, because the question of the relation of Jesus and temptation might be better studied under the Hebrews passage. |
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256 | Were Eve's desires sinful? | Gen 3:6 | Lionstrong | 92983 | ||
Thanks for you answer, Aixen, I don't entirely agree, but think your answers are quite clear. Again, I'll carry this no farther since this is a study better served under Hebrews 4, not here. |
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257 | God/Man, Man/Man Relationships | Gen 3:8 | Lionstrong | 71930 | ||
Mark 10:19 "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'" Rom 13:9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." Matt 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Matt 22:37 And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' Matt 22:38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. Matt 22:39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' Matt 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." Matt 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Rom 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Cor 14:37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment. Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Eph 6:2 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise), Eph 6:3 SO THAT IT MAY BE WELL WITH YOU, AND THAT YOU MAY LIVE LONG ON THE EARTH. 1 Thess 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. 1 Thess 4:2 For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. To summarize my answer to you, RFerg, You can't go wrong starting with the commands in the apostolic epistles (Romans through Revelation). There are a lot of them, I know, but they can be summarized in the Ten Commandments. These can be further summarized in the two greatest commandments, love God and love your neighbor. Ps 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! Ps 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. Ps 1:3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers. Peace, |
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258 | Result of sin physical or spiritual? | Gen 3:22 | Lionstrong | 9722 | ||
Hello Steve, Thanks for your thoughts. Your response contain some assumption that I do not believe to be true. First, it assumes man would have died bodily if he had not sinned. Second, it assumes that man gains knowledge by experience, rather than it being given by God. Third, which is the point at hand, it assumes that death does not apply to the whole man, body and soul. God created man a rational being with the capability for there to be communication between God and man. In other words, man did not learn language by experience; he was created with it. So man understood the words God spoke to him. Also even if the Tree of Life could impart eternal life, it does not imply that not eating it would result in the condemnation of Adam. For one, God made no such threat. The threat of death was only for eating the Tree of Knowledge, not for not eating the Tree of Life. |
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259 | Result of sin physical or spiritual? | Gen 3:22 | Lionstrong | 9734 | ||
"Plus, if the Tree of Life was to grant eternal life, that means Adam and Eve would of been condemned forever ... judged at that point. " ............... Hi, Steve, ........................ Thanks for continuing this dialog on the issue of sin and death. I enjoy it, and think it important. Sorry if I misunderstood you on the Tree of Life and condemnation. I got it from your qoute above. ............. I'll deal with one point only because I have to leave for work shortly. Heb 9:27: Only if you apply your assumption about physical death can this verse be understood your way. However this verse applies to man AFTER the Fall only, because "through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" Rom 5:12 If Adam had not sinned death would not be part of man's experience. "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." 1 Cor 15:22 I also think that your notion of God's curse of death being only spiritural makes the physical death of Christ unecessary. But it was necessary because the curse of death was on the whole man, body and soul. ................. Thanks again for your interest in this subject. |
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260 | Result of sin physical or spiritual? | Gen 3:22 | Lionstrong | 37681 | ||
Convoluted!!? Don't you like me, Nolan? Peace, Lionstrong But I admit, the thoughts are rather tightly packed. You've got to read them sloooowly :) |
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