Results 81 - 83 of 83
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Results from: Notes Author: JibbyJee Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | JibbyJee | 88522 | ||
Greetings retxar! Then, I'm assuming you believe not all men are drawn by God. Would that be an accurate assumption based upon your statement "John 6:44 simply says that all who come to Jesus are drawn to Him by God. It should be easy to see that the one who was drawn, the one who came, and the one who will be raised up, is all talking about the same person."? Or said differently, is it equally true that the one who is NOT raised up is the one who didn't come because he WASN'T drawn? In Christ, Jibbs |
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82 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | JibbyJee | 88600 | ||
Greetings retxar! Hey, bud, there's no need to get defensive. First off, I am only asking questions for the purpose of gaining information about WHY your statement was made. I need to ask questions because that initial statement was VERY broad and open to interpretation. We all must be as concise as possible and be open to explaining WHY we believe as we do rather that dismissing someone else simply because we disagree with them. You say the text means what it "simply says". So what is that, exactly? I mean, I believe the verse in it's own context "simply says" something completely different that you do. So who's right? Shall we debate the context of John 6:35-45 exegetically? Regarding your postscript: The passage has nothing to do with so-called "invitations". It says "drawn". And all who are drawn are raised up to eternal life. If you aren't raised up to eternal life, you weren't drawn. This passage is speaking directly of man't INABILITY and the purpose of God's SAVING GRACE. God doesn't invite to save. God saves. Can you show me how you can come to another conclusion from Scripture? In Christ, Jibbs |
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83 | Are those drawn 2 Christ raised to life? | Rev 13:8 | JibbyJee | 88746 | ||
Greetings retxar: Judging by the disrespectful tone of your reply, my conclusion is that you've made up your mind what the passage says and no one else could possibly be correct. Nevertheless, I will respond to your post. I use the ASV, KJV, NKJV, NASB, and NIV. All of them, in my opinion of course, clearly teach that all who are drawn are lifted up to eternal life in the CONTEXT of John 6:35-45. So, I will assume you are using one or more of those translations and therefore the subject is clearly NOT translation, but rather INTERPRETATION. To you, it simply says whatever (you've yet to explain anything) and to me it simply says all who are drawn to Christ by the Father are raised up to eternal life. So, should we figure out who's interpretation is "simpler" and declare the victor? I should hope not. Here's how I understand the verses in their own context. Perhaps that will give you a bit more meat to chew on instead of just throwing a flurry of rhetorical punches. Joh 6:35 Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. Joh 6:37 All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.((Are all men given to the Son??)) Joh 6:38 For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh 6:41 The Jews therefore murmured concerning him, because he said, I am the bread which came down out of heaven. Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how doth he now say, I am come down out of heaven? Joh 6:43 Jesus answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. ((This is clearly connecting "DRAW" with their "BELIEF". Notice it says "no one CAN come", signifying inability, yet in spite of the inability the father DRAWS him. And Jesus clearly shows (notice the punctuation, a colon) that this man that was DRAWN will also be raised up on the last day. This raising up cannot be divorced from the context of previous verses such as John 6:37 or 6:40, nor can it be seperated from the following verse:) Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. I don't understand how ANYBODY can say these verses are NOT talking about CHRIST doing the will of His Father--raising those who are drawn to Him to eternal life. Other than the strong traditions that sometimes blind us from the truth. If you care to give an explanation of John 6:35-45 from your point of view, please do so. I would love to hear your side in detail. In Christ, Jibbs |
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