Results 941 - 960 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
941 | "Born-again Christian" redundant? | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 33357 | ||
Thank you Joe. I was aware of all that. Emmaus |
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942 | baptismal regeneration? | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 33359 | ||
Searcher, That is your interpretation and your tradition's interpretation. I do not believe that the external and internal washing are mutually exclusive, but in fact work together even as Jesus was both God and man. The kind of sacramental theology I hold is incarnational. That is to say, Christ by his incarnation and saving work has redeemed all creation physical and spiritual and uses them even as he did in his ministry to effect cures: e.g. Mark 8:22-24 22: And they came to Beth-sa'ida. And some people brought to him a blind man, and begged him to touch him. 23: And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the village; and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands upon him, he asked him, "Do you see anything?" 24: And he looked up and said, "I see men; but they look like trees, walking." 25: Then again he laid his hands upon his eyes; and he looked intently and was restored, and saw everything clearly. Mark 7:32-34 32: And they brought to him a man who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech; and they besought him to lay his hand upon him. 33: And taking him aside from the multitude privately, he put his fingers into his ears, and he spat and touched his tongue; 34: and looking up to heaven, he sighed, and said to him, "Eph'phatha," that is, "Be opened." 35: And his ears were opened, his tongue was released, and he spoke plainly. God does not have to use the physical to effect our physical or spiritual healing, neither did he have to become man to save us. But he did. Emmaus |
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943 | baptismal regeneration? | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 33958 | ||
Zach, I am afraid you misunderstand my understanding of the sacrament of Baptism. Sacraments are encounters with God. It is God that does the work in them, sanctifying us, not the person sanctifiying him or herself. Even the minister of the sacrament is merely a "stand in" acting "in persona Christi" in the administering of the sacrament. When a person is Baptised and the minister (priest or lay) speaks the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" it is the power of God's saving word in the sacrament that accomplishes the purpose God intened. Somewhat reminiscent of this passage, Is 55:10-11 10: "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return not thither but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout, giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater, 11: so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it. " The way I see it Jesus is the ultimate sacrament in which all sacraments subsist. The sacraments are all encounters with Christ. Your comment that "a corpse cannot birth itself by any act or ritual" is of course to the point. The sacrament of Baptism is called a "sacrament of the dead." The "act" in Baptism is God's as he works through an element of his creation. Jesus is the ultimate sacrament. God became flesh to save us through his death in the flesh and his resurrection of the body which he promises also to us. On earth the earthly and the spiritual work together because that is how God created us and Jesus came to redeem and restore all creation, physical and spiritual. I saw you profile. My earlier comment was just an observation on the content of your posts not a guess about your church affiliation. It was a little bit of a tease. No offense intended. I see you are a fan of Tozier. I too have read him and find him very astute and appealing. I was only recently reading over again The Pursuit of God. Emmaus |
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944 | Isn't believing Christ for salvation suf | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91209 | ||
John, I would think Ken is referring to 2 Pet 1:4 "For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust " Emmaus |
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945 | Isn't believing Christ for salvation suf | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91259 | ||
John, I do not know where Ken is coming from, but what he is saying in a rather roundabout way is not that strange to me at least, unless I am mistaking his point, which, if I am, he can point out. It sounds a lot like traditional Catholic teaching on grace. See below 1996. "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.[Cf. Jn 1:12-18 ; Jn 17:3 ; Rom 8:14-17 ; 2Pet 1:3-4.]" 1997. "Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an 'adopted son' he can henceforth call God 'Father,' in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church." 1998. "This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.[Cf. 1 Cor 2:7-9 .] " 1999. "The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:[Cf. Jn 4:14 ; Jn 7:38-39 .] Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.[2 Cor 5:17-18 .] " The Catechism of the Catholic Church Emmaus |
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946 | Supposed to "DO" something? | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91327 | ||
Ken, " He IMPARTS, no gift here..." Impart:1)to give a share or portion of;give. 2)to make known; tell; reveal; communicate. Not a gift? Emmaus |
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947 | Supposed to "DO" something? | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91333 | ||
Ken, Not sharp shooting, just looking for clarification. I would still say that grace is a gift, but we must co-operate with it. Imputing is a little different than imparting. Impute: 1) to attribute something (especially a crime or fault)to another; charge with;. 2) in theology to ascribe (good or evil)to a person as coming from another. I believe in Christ righteousness being imputed to us, but I believe it is also infused. I have followed your post and though you may not be Catholic, your reasoning follows very closely the teachings of the Counil of Trent on Justification as well as the teachings in the Catechis on justification, grace and merit. Take a look and see what I mean. http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM http://198.62.75.1/www1/CDHN/salve.html#AND Emmaus |
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948 | Isn't believing Christ for salvation suf | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91334 | ||
Ken, Well it is a rather small section of a large book. I think you are getting the wrong impression without the larger context. Emmaus |
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949 | Isn't believing Christ for salvation suf | John 3:3 | Emmaus | 91340 | ||
Ken, I can't judge what impression you may have gotten from individuals, but you may find the official teaching of interest. Sometimes it is not accurately transmitted even by those who mean well. Good night. Emmaus |
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950 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111238 | ||
Searcher, "Huron, keep in mind that the Catholics believe baptism is required for salvation." Well, yes and no. The Catholic position is a little more subtle than most people think. As is often the case it takes a both/and position, rather than an either/or position, and depending on the indivisual circumstances may agree with one or the other of the either/or positions held by the various members of the forum. And this ties into the whole conmcept of justification/sanctification as a continuum or ongoing process. So we see this teaching. "1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation (John 3:5)(arguments that this verse does not refer to the sacrament of baptism notwithstanding). He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. ... 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament. 1247 Since the beginning of the Church, adult Baptism is the common practice where the proclamation of the Gospel is still new. The catechumenate (preparation for Baptism) therefore occupies an important place. This initiation into Christian faith and life should dispose the catechumen to receive the gift of God in Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist. 1248 The catechumenate, or formation of catechumens, aims at bringing their conversion and faith to maturity, in response to the divine initiative and in union with an ecclesial community. The catechumenate is to be "a formation in the whole Christian life . . . during which the disciples will be joined to Christ their teacher. The catechumens should be properly initiated into the mystery of salvation and the practice of the evangelical virtues, and they should be introduced into the life of faith, liturgy, and charity of the People of God by successive sacred rites." 1249 Catechumens "are already joined to the Church, they are already of the household of Christ, and are quite frequently already living a life of faith, hope, and charity." "With love and solicitude mother Church already embraces them as her own." The Catechism of the Catholic Church You may have noticed I usually avoid most of these closed cage matches, although I may make a post or two on occassion. Emmaus |
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951 | Water, baptism and John 3:5/Titus 3:5 | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111254 | ||
Colin, Necessary for those who can be baptised, since Jesus commissioned his followers to preach the Gospel, "and make disiples of all antions, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Matthew 27:19-20. It would seem to be to be the first expression of "the obedience of (saving) faith." (Romans 1:5) That is why the Church even at the Council of Trent said that "faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and root of all justification without which it is imossible to please God." That is why in scripture faith and baptism are already linked except in situation where baptism is impossible such as the thief on the cross or the household of Cornelius, which would have been denied baptism until God sent Peter his vision in Acts 10-11 and made it clear that Gentiles who had received the faith could and in fact must be baptised. Emmaus |
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952 | Emmaus, Need 2B taught 2B saved, too? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111284 | ||
Thanks Norm. Sorry about my typo. Emmaus |
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953 | Emmaus, Need 2B taught 2B saved, too? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111285 | ||
I had referrenced Matt 27:19-20 in error and Searcher was responding to that. I meant to cite Matt 28:19-20. My error. Sorry. Emmaus |
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954 | Emmaus, Need 2B taught 2B saved, too? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 111307 | ||
Searcher, I meant Matt 28:19-20 if that makes any difference to you, which I doubt. Emmaus |
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955 | Born of the water means? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134202 | ||
Tim, "I have also found it interesting that John 3 doesn't really speak of being 'born again'. The actual word used is 'born from above'. Thus, the contrast would be between 'born from below' and 'born from above' - i.e. natural and spiritual birth." I would find this easier to go along with if "from below" was anywhere in the text, but it is not. It is also interesting that the NASB makes the choice of using "again" rather than "from above" although I have no problem with the later. I agree with the natural and spiritual birth. I just don't think the "water" in this case is referring to the natural birth, which is how Nicodemus misunderstood it. Rather, it seems to me more linked to the "spirit" by "and" as the Holy Spirit is often linked with water and with baptism. And the natural flow of the context of John 3 leads into the verse about apostles baptizing at the end of the chapter. Emmaus |
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956 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134522 | ||
Dalcent, Please e-mail me at spohl@bcpl.net Emmaus |
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957 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134536 | ||
Doc, "Is your interpretation of this verse (John 3:5) one that is required of you by Rome? If so, I apologize for provoking you and Dalcent by this question -- that wasn't my intent." Actually that intepretation of John 3:5 is required of Catholics. But I belived it for 45 years before I was ever aware that it was a defined position of the Church. I must say that I agree with Dalcent's position on baptism, but I found that being right is not always enough to convince people in these parts. ;-) I have been through the Baptismal wars a few times and have been an observer in many other skimishes. I have only so much time and energy. You guys can't afford to captitulate on this point without expecting to baptized in the Tiber. It would mean accepting all of Catholic Sacramental theology and swimming the Tiber (God willing and the Holy Spirit moving). And we Catholics, we only go into water far enough to be baptised into Christ. We aren't going to swim Lake Geneva. Emmaus |
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958 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134547 | ||
Doc, My "obligation" is my pleasure. I embrace it freely and joyfully. It is not anymore a burdensome "obligation" to me than embracing Sola Fidei, Sola Scriptura, is for you to maintain your good standing in the eyes Geneva or all other Protestants. Emmaus |
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959 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134587 | ||
Colin, I am no expert on Protestant theology but I assumed the Calvinist doctrine of "total depravity" was based on an understanding of original sin. As Dalcent indicated in one of his post one of the difference between Catholics and many Protesteants is how we understand the gift of justifying grace to be apprppriated. Cathloics belief that Baptism is the ordinary instrumental means of appropriating the grace of justification won by Christ on the cross. This based on Romans 6:3-6 and other verses already quoted about putting on Christ in baptism. On the other hand it seems that many Protestants seem Baptism as an ordinace that is a mere ritual, secondary to the appropriation of the grace of justification that is accomplihes via the "sinner's prayer" or a simple "confession of Christ as Savior". Emmaus |
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960 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Emmaus | 134588 | ||
Doc, "Romish" is a pejorative term if I am not mistaken. Of course I am sure you mean no offense. Emmaus |
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