Results 1241 - 1260 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1241 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49175 | ||
Joe, Thankfully Joe the buck doesn't stop with you. :-) And as you know, the door swung both ways on condemnations in those days. A few other paragraphs of the Catechism for those on both side who may wish to strive for unity and charity in the present. 817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame." The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin: Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers. 818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." Emmaus |
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1242 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49181 | ||
Joe, I don't think I will successfully clarify the issue for you. The best I can say is that the anathemas were against those promoting the dissentions of the day. And the anathema, I am sure you will find this hard to accept) is sometimes called "the charitable anathema", because thay is meant not to be a verdict of eternal damanation ( which can only be decided by God), but a breaking of fellowship in the hope that the one excommunicated will see the error of his ways and repent. This is still done today in Protestant Churches as well as the Catholic Church. Emmaus |
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1243 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49183 | ||
Joe, Here is link which addresses a question about "the current status of the anathemas of Trent" and also a touches on the fact that the anathemas of that Council were canon law anathemas, which differs from biblical anathemas. I must confess it is not a question I loose a lot of sleep over. (I also don't loose any sleep over Protestant anathemas of Catholics, whatever form they take.)But apparently you are not alone in your interest. http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q137.htm Emmaus |
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1244 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49374 | ||
Joe, As I have previously indicated this subject s not my forte. However I found an interesting dialogue on another website that cover the exact same ground between a Reformed believer and a Catholic who is better organized in this area than I, although I recognize and have read his sources. If you can take time from battles on other fronts, the dialogue at these links may speak to a great extent for both of us. The dialogue is in two parts, hence the two links in order. Have a good holiday weekend. http://catholicoutlook.com/tim1.html http://catholicoutlook.com/tim12.html Emmaus |
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1245 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49400 | ||
Joe, Of course I would disagree with your analysis, especially comparing different Catholic religious orders with different Protestant denominations. Their dogmatic theology is not different as you will find in different Protestant denominations. Of all the points you make that is the weakest. The unity of the Protestant denominations is in what they are not (Catholic) rather than than in what they are, since they are regularly protestants among themselves as seem by the proliferation of churches, denominational or non. And the argument about the ancient heretics using scripture to support their positions is valid They did that in exactly the same way various parties do the same thing on this forum. The difference is that in the forum and in the Protestant world there is no other really binding authority if one Church, say Lutheran or Reformed, has no more authority than another in resolving these scriptural disputes as the Church Councils do. So we have the sad scandal and spectacle of an ever expanding pattern of division with no hope for an end in sight until the second coming unless there is some sort of significant reunification, which humanly speaking seems rather unlikely without some sort of intervention of divine grace. Emmaus One thing even more sure is that you and I are not going to resolve the matter in our discussions no matter how much we may enjoy the exchange and intellectual and theological exercise. Emmaus |
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1246 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49475 | ||
Joe, I am sure I will suvive strong words. Do you susbcribe to the "anti-Christ" description of the pope in Chapter XXV of the WCF? Talk about anathemas. Emmaus |
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1247 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49481 | ||
Joe, Perusing the WCF upon your suggestion I found much classical solid pre- Reformation theology, but also, among other things, quickly came upon the following. From the WCF "III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7] IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]" I must admit that I cannot see the difference between the above paragraphs from the WCF and the concept of fate among the ancient pagan cultures. And it certainly sounds more like the "Bad News" than the Good News for most people. I think it is this form of "double predestination" that is the thing that drives some people from the Calvinist position, which otherwise has the best and most developed theology and among Protestants. Emmaus |
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1248 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49488 | ||
Joe, "It is different from the pagan idea of fate. Fatalism says that no matter what one does, his/her outcome is certain" Joe From the WCF "III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7] IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]" I still don't see the difference, even when it is dressed up in Christian terminology. But I have followed your discussions with Tim and see no point in covering the same ground. Emmaus |
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1249 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49530 | ||
"So while there is some similarity between fate and biblical predestination in that our destinies are determined in eternity without our consent (which Augustine rightly pointed out would be in favor of rejection of Christ), in biblical terms we will all willingly embrace the path that leads to our destiny." Joe Well Joe I guess that's how you choose to see it. Or is that how it is chosen for you to see it? Emmaus |
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1250 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49531 | ||
Joe, Thank you. I was aware of the different language in the American Confession. I am happy to know you subscribe to it. Hope springs eternal for an ultimate reconciliation at some point. Emmaus |
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1251 | catholic and protestant salvation view | Eph 4:3 | Emmaus | 49552 | ||
Joe, Once again you have the last word. Emmaus |
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1252 | What is "one baptism" in Eph. 4:5? | Eph 4:5 | Emmaus | 119448 | ||
Rowdy, "Of course, I'm already anticipating your response with a different opinion but I must ask if this one baptism from the Bible DOESN'T include immersion in water, how can you dismiss all the many scriptures which describe baptism in just this way? Don't you see the safer position is to assume the same position the Bible presents and that is that baptism includes ALL the features as ascribed to it. " Actually I don't have a different opinion and do not dismiss the scripture you mentioned. I just did not think that was the point of the question being asked, part of which was how many times ones should be baptized. My focus was on the answer: only one time because of the reasons I gave. Your point I took for granted and fiyured they would fall into place once the "how many times" question was answered. I am curious to know what type of response or different opinion you were anticipating? Emmaus |
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1253 | Once upon a time | Eph 4:11 | Emmaus | 131358 | ||
Doc, "It made me mindful of Paul's words in 2 Timothy 2:2 "And what things you heard from me through many witnesses, commit these things to faithful men, such as will be competent also to teach others." No zotting there, but clearly the teaching of Christ and the apostles comes to us through "faithful men." Praise God!" Context Doc, context! How could you have missed this verse in the very same letter or the verse from 1 Timothy 4:14. 2 Tim 1:6 "For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands." 1 Tim 4:14 "Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery." See also Numbers 27:18-23; Deuteronomy 34:9; Acts 6:6; 13:31. Emmaus |
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1254 | Once upon a time | Eph 4:11 | Emmaus | 131367 | ||
Doc, Paul was a unique case of one called "out of time" by Jesus on the road to Damascus. But even he had hands laid on him before being sent on the speacial mission God had him set aside for. (Acts 13:3) He was not a Lone Ranger. Emmaus |
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1255 | Once upon a time | Eph 4:11 | Emmaus | 131368 | ||
Doc, Not to mention that immediately after his knock down experience, Paul had hand laid on him by Ananis at God's command, Ananias' reluctance not withstanding. Acts 9;11-17. Emmaus |
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1256 | offering to God for a fragrant aroma. | Eph 5:2 | Emmaus | 165692 | ||
"Live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma." Eph 5:2 "Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy one." Rev 5:8 "Our love for God and neighbor is the fire in which the incense of our worship burns sweetly. Let us pray: " Magnificat Magazine, January 2006 evening prayer for 1/10/06. |
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1257 | offering to God for a fragrant aroma | Eph 5:2 | Emmaus | 165693 | ||
"Live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma." Eph 5:2 "Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones." Rev 5:8 "Our love for God and neighbor is the fire in which the incense of our worship burns sweetly. Let us pray: " Magnificat Magazine, January 2006 evening prayer for 1/10/06. |
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1258 | Are you asking about a mystical body | Eph 5:25 | Emmaus | 54284 | ||
Andes, "How would you respond to ... Ezek 1:26-28 And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it. Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around. Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking. NKJV Do Angels have a body?" I would say Ezekiel had a vision shared by St. John in Rev. 4:2, 8 and Is. 6:1. I would also say that God in essential nature is pure spirit as are angels. But visons of God are anthropomorphic in nature. I would also say that the person God the Son took on a human nature that was not the essence of his eternal divine nature and that he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven with a glorified body. Angels as demonstrated in scripture in numerous places can also take on human form in order to achieve their mission, but their essential nature is pure spirit. How exactly would you define body in the context of this discussion? Emmaus |
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1259 | Are you asking about a mystical body | Eph 5:25 | Emmaus | 54323 | ||
Andes, I answered your question, but you completely ignored my question requesting a definition of "body." What a waste of time and space. But you did finally succeed in stirring up your hornets nest. Emmaus |
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1260 | Is the bride of christ the church? | Eph 5:32 | Emmaus | 144462 | ||
Sam, These metaphors was common even in the Old Testament. See Hosea among other references and see all the references to Zion and daughter Zion throughout the OT. Emmaus |
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