Results 1181 - 1200 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1181 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56978 | ||
Kalos, If you were going to use so much space you could have posted almost all of the Trent Documents on Justification themselves along with the scriptural citations used to support those positions. Then anyone interested could get the complete and accurate facts in their proper context with supporting scriptural references and be able to decide for themselves if they are horrified, mystified or edified. That would seem to be the sporting way, rather than posting a three part polemic that takes selected passages out of their larger context and then cites only opposing verses without citing or addressing the supporting verses. I believe that is known as setting up a straw man. I have always found primary sources to be of much greater value than secondary. Some of the strong language may indeed seem offensive, but a recourse to the language of the other side is no more gentle if one goes to the primary sources of the Reformers. I again invite anyone interested in the subject to go to the Catholic source for the Catholic position and consider it on its own merits. http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM Emmaus |
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1182 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56909 | ||
Kalos, I would not go so far as to say Luther and the Catholic Church teach exactly the same thing about justification, only to say that the catholic Church does not teach a system of works righteouness and that it does teach that initial justification is by grace alone. The CRI presentation of the Catholic position, as you quote them, is not exactly accurate. What they seem to be attributing to Catholic teaching on initial justification is really more closely related to Catholic teaching on what Protestants call sanctification. Catholics also call it sanctification or increase in justification received. That is where works in Christ (of merit only because they are done in Christ and due to the influence of unmerited grace)come into play. The Council of Trent documents are not so difficult that they need to be filtered by CRI. They can speak for themselves very plainly. To see the full documents of the Council of Trent on Justification go to this link: http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM Emmaus |
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1183 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56907 | ||
Kalos, Thank you. I was surprised to see your post since you are ususally factually accurate. Unfortunately there have especially in the past and still in the present often been caricatures rather than true representations handed down by some teachers on both sides who were themselves taught these same innacurate things. Emmaus |
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1184 | What are the "works of God"? | Rom 6:4 | Emmaus | 56898 | ||
Kalos, "For the record, the fundamental Bible doctrine you are attacking is that we are saved by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone. If anyone wants to put himself under a system of works-righteousness, he will find that the doors to the Roman Catholic church are wide open." For the record, the above statement that the Roman Catholic Church teaches "works-righteousness" is a misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine. The true Catholic teaching on initial justification is easily found in the documents of the Council of Trent from which I quote here: "CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD But when the apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace." Emmaus |
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1185 | Which verse impress you the most. Share | Mark 4:35 | Emmaus | 56804 | ||
Ray, I have recently seen a small book on the subject of how to deal with the times in our lives when God seems far away or absent and unaware or unconcerned. It is titled "When Jesus is Sleeping" and starts from this storm on the lake passage. Did the apostles really think Jesus would let them and Himself drown? They were an axious lot until Pentecost. Jesus often preached on the uselessness of anxienty and reliance instead on the providence of God. One prayer in the Mass which I really love comes right after the Our Father and just before Communion. It says: "Deliver us Lord from every evil,and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ." Emmaus |
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1186 | Emmaus, Is an annullment Biblical? | Matt 19:12 | Emmaus | 56211 | ||
Searcher, Do you think we should return to polygamy and other biblical laws of the Patriarchs based on this bibilical example. Even within the biblical contexts some laws changed. Emmaus |
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1187 | Do any false pretenses allow allumnet? | Matt 19:12 | Emmaus | 56178 | ||
Searcher, I would say that the intentional ommission of significant fact that is otherwise taken for granted is not much different than a direct lie. The difference between a sin of ommission and a sin of commission. When one swears in court to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, do they lie when they leave out a significant piece of testimony that gives a misleading or false impression and by ommission bearing false witness? When our testimony can aquit the innocent or convict the guilty and we are silent is that sin? Emmaus |
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1188 | would God join 2 people | Matt 19:12 | Emmaus | 56121 | ||
Searcher, In the case of Joni and Ken Tada the fact that they could not have children was know before the marriage and the contract was made with full knowledge and consent of both parties. In such a case the inability to have children is not a grounds for annullment. Emmaus |
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1189 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 54405 | ||
Hank, I saw the accusation and its context and thought it so preposterous that it was unworthy of a response, although you immediately dusted him off quite easily. Perhap I was remiss in not responding myself since you have come to my defense on numerous occasions. This forum really does need your wit and humor to balance the other sometimes absurd postings. I have become much more selective about which posts I respond to an even then I often regret taking some of the bait thrown out. I think it might sometimes be better to let much of the nonsense posted sink to the bottom without acknowledgement. However, passive resistance does not seems to be the preferred mode of defense here. So I salute you the Happy Warrior, Joe the Razor of the Reformation, Tim the Titan Moran and all the other defenders of clear thinking on this forum. Though we may on occassion nick one another in the chaos of battle you usually slay with humor. Emmaus |
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1190 | Are you asking about a mystical body | Eph 5:25 | Emmaus | 54323 | ||
Andes, I answered your question, but you completely ignored my question requesting a definition of "body." What a waste of time and space. But you did finally succeed in stirring up your hornets nest. Emmaus |
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1191 | Are you asking about a mystical body | Eph 5:25 | Emmaus | 54284 | ||
Andes, "How would you respond to ... Ezek 1:26-28 And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it. Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around. Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking. NKJV Do Angels have a body?" I would say Ezekiel had a vision shared by St. John in Rev. 4:2, 8 and Is. 6:1. I would also say that God in essential nature is pure spirit as are angels. But visons of God are anthropomorphic in nature. I would also say that the person God the Son took on a human nature that was not the essence of his eternal divine nature and that he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven with a glorified body. Angels as demonstrated in scripture in numerous places can also take on human form in order to achieve their mission, but their essential nature is pure spirit. How exactly would you define body in the context of this discussion? Emmaus |
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1192 | rock foundation | Matt 7:24 | Emmaus | 53860 | ||
McGracer, Sorry to so slow in my response. I was working today and then after composing a response it was lost before being saved when a thunderstorm came up and shut down my computer with a power outage. In hindsight it is apparent that my use of "Bull!" was imprudent and inflamatory and for this I apologize to Andes and the other members of the forum. Would you believe I chose that word after discarding several other words that I felt too harsh. I should have searched longer and used my Thesaurus. I obviously have not yet attained the literary heights of Hank who is able to express stong opinions with gentle words. However, I stand by my stated opinion, that the Gospels have primacy over all other parts of scripture, which I believe you have misunderstood. If ignorance is the strongest charge brought against me when I stand before my Maker I will feel truly blessed. Another member of the forum whom I highly esteem has in a heated moment accused me of much worse and our online forum relationship has survived. Allow me to re-state my position, hopefully with more temperance amd clarity. To say that the Gospels have primacy over all other scripture is not to deny that other scripture is the inspired word of God. On the contrary the very phrasing implies and acknowledges the other portions of scripture as part of God's inspired revelation. It does, however, say that the Gospels are preeminent and all others scripture is fully understood only in relation to the Gospels. Therefore, I think it folly to suggest that "The Letters Rom-Jud are what we should be studying the most", their larger relative amount of print notwithstanding. Without the Gospels St. Paul and the other Apostles have nothing to build or elaborate upon and the inspired writings of the prophets are not fulfilled. The Gospels are the keystone at the top and center of the arch of scripture which holds all other scripture in its proper place.Without the Gospels the arch collapses (I realize this is an imperfect analogy)because it looses it center of focus and unity. How often have I heard the question: "Where should I start reading the bible?" and heard the answer, "with the Gospel of John." Never have I heard the answer, "Romans" or any other Epistle, which can be fully understood only in the context of the Gospel. The Christian in order to become ever more like Christ must be saturated in the Gospels until they ooze from the very pores of our body mind and spirit. It is in relation to the Gospels that all other inspired scripture is fully understood and illuminated. Thank you to everyone who has had a kind word to say on my behalf, especially Cyclist and Hank. Emmaus |
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1193 | rock foundation | Matt 7:24 | Emmaus | 53761 | ||
Andes, You said: "The Gospels are important, BUT The Letters Rom-Jud are what we should be studying the most. THEY TEACH US HOW TO DO THE SAYINGS OF JESUS UNDER OUR COVENANT" Bull! The Gospels have primacy over all other scripture for the Christian. If we had nothing but them they would be enough. God could raise up a thousand apostles, but there is only one Jesus Christ. Emmaus |
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1194 | Why have kids when... | Gen 1:22 | Emmaus | 53759 | ||
Andes, Let's review for a moment: Andes: "asked a Calvinist one time... "Do you have Kids?" He said "3". I said "Why would you have kids if God might choose one of them to go to hell?" Do you think a true calvinist would ever have kids, because what if God chose one of them for eternal damnation? Emmaus: "You may as well ask an Armenianist why they would have children if one of them might by free will choose etrnal damnation." Andes: "I believe that if you obey the word, and train up a child in the way he should go he will not depart from it. See what Paul told Timothy in 2 Tim 3:14-15." You seem to have gone beyond Calvin himself in your train of thought Andes, by extending the concept of Assurance of Salvation or "once saved, always saved" to a multi-generational assurance of "once saved, always saved and children once trained up always saved", thereby denying the very idea of free will for properly trained up children that you find lacking in the Calvinist. It does seem rather unlikely you can have your cake and eat it too in this line of reasoning. Emmaus |
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1195 | Can one who commits suicide be saved? | Ex 20:13 | Emmaus | 53677 | ||
Andes, Some who commit suicide are mentally ill, not necessarily all. You are correct that God does not send a person to hell because they are sick. The particular circumstances may diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. The ancient Catholic custom of refusing Christian burial to those who committed suicide was not a judgement on whether or not they were saved or sane. It was a judgement on the sin of despair and the teaching that we do not give ourselves life nor are we allowed to take our own life. We commanded to love God and love our neighbor as ourself. Suicide may also involve the sin of giving scandal. The refusal of Christian burial also has a practical purpose, which is to deter people from committing suicide. It is often if not always an effective deterent. Studies indicate that clinically depressed people with suicidal ideation who have been taught that suicide is a mortal sin which leads to damnation often do not follow through on their thoughts for that very reason. As for the deminished resposibility of the menatlly ill: it is for this reason some are now granted a Christian burial. And that does not even touch on the current issues of assisted suicide and the ever more popular "mercy killing -suicide" and murder-suicide. Emmaus |
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1196 | at the Lord's Supper Jesus said this. | Matt 26:29 | Emmaus | 53350 | ||
Elice, I did finally get to the link to which you referred. I think you will find the one to which I referred rather different, although I can also agree with the general thoughts in the site to which you reffered me. Emmaus |
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1197 | at the Lord's Supper Jesus said this. | Matt 26:29 | Emmaus | 53347 | ||
Elice, I can't get yours to come up either. You might try to cut and past the web link I sent you to the address bar. I notice in your response you had it off by a letter. It is ewtn, not ewin. Here it is again. http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/4thCup.htm Good Luck! Emmaus |
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1198 | Does Psalms 22 stand up to the skeptics? | Ps 22:16 | Emmaus | 53023 | ||
Joe, Unrelated to this thread, I am sending you an e-mail. Did not want you to delete it as a suspected virus carrier. Emmaus |
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1199 | Does Psalms 22 stand up to the skeptics? | Ps 22:16 | Emmaus | 53022 | ||
Tim, Unrelated to this thread, I am sending you an e-mail. Did not want you to delete it as a suspected visus carrier. Emmaus |
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1200 | Jephthah and the burnt offering? | Judges | Emmaus | 52797 | ||
Cyclist, Responding by e-mail. Emmaus |
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