Results 1121 - 1140 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1121 | forgiveness confirmed? | 1 John 1:1 | Emmaus | 61326 | ||
GJH, I can't speak for others here, but when I have to see it in the literal sense I read the scripture. When I have to hear it in the physical as well as the spiritual sense I pray and then go to sacramental Confession. It is "the ministry of reconciliation." "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." 2 Cor 5:17-20 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." John 2:22-23 Emmaus |
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1122 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 61073 | ||
John, A final post from me on the subject. Augustine was citing scripture to support free will as he elsewhere cites scripture for grace. It is just that his interpretation was different from yours. Emmaus |
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1123 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 61053 | ||
John, Calvinist often refer to St. Augustine in support of their doctrine of irresistable grace against free-will. But is seems Augustine actually held a more balanced position. Below is the opening of his work, "On Grace and Free Will" "CHAP. I --THE OCCASION AND ARGUMENT OF THIS WORK. WITH reference to those persons who so preach and defend man's free will, as boldly to deny, and endeavour to do away with, the grace of God which Calls us to Him, and delivers us from our evil deserts, and by which we obtain the good deserts which lead to everlasting life: we have already said a good deal in discussion, and committed it to writing, so far as the Lord has vouchsafed to enable us. But since there are some persons who so defend God's grace as to deny man's free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended, I have determined to write somewhat on this point to your Love, my brother Valentinus, and the rest of you, who are serving God together under the impulse of a mutual love. For it has been told me concerning you, brethren, by some members of your brotherhood who have visited us, and are the bearers of this communication of ours to you, that there are dissensions among you on this subject. This, then, being the case, dearly beloved, that you be not disturbed by the obscurity of this question, I counsel you first to thank God for such things as you understand; but as for all which is beyond the reach of your mind, pray for understanding from the Lord, observing, at the same time peace and love among yourselves; and until He Himself lead you to perceive what at present is beyond your comprehension, walk firmly on the ground of which you are sure. This is the advice of the Apostle Paul, who, after saying that he was not yet perfect, a little later adds, "Let us, therefore, as many as are perfect, be thus minded," --meaning perfect to a certain extent, but not having attained to a perfection sufficient for us; and then immediately adds, "And if, in any thing, ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereunto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule." For by walking in what we have attained, we shall be able to advance to what we have not yet attained,--God revealing it to us if in anything we are otherwise minded,--provided we do not give up what He has already revealed. CHAP. 2 --PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF FREE WILL IN MAN FROM THE PRECEPTS ADDRESSED TO HIM BY GOD. Now He has revealed to us, through His Holy Scriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine. There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. For they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance, as the Lord says concerning the Jews in the gospel: "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin." Of what sin does He speak but of that great one which He foreknew, while speaking thus, that they would make their own--that is, the death they were going to inflict upon Him? For they did not have "no sin" before Christ came to them in the flesh. The apostle also says: "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold back the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him are from the creation of the world clearly seen--being understood by the things that are made--even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are inexcusable." In what sense does he pronounce them to be "inexcusable," except with reference to such excuse as human pride is apt to allege in such words as, "If I had only known, I would have done it; did I not fail to do it because I was ignorant of it?" or," I would do it if I knew how; but I do not know, therefore I do not do it"? All such excuse is removed from them when the precept is given them, or the knowledge is made manifest to them how to avoid sin." The entire work can be read at: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm Emmaus |
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1124 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 61028 | ||
Ed, I am not so sure that penance undertaken willing is a "work" in the sense that you mean. Perhaps it all fits into the conversation I just had with John Reformed about the difference between "works of the law" and "works in Christ." Anyway, enough said. We have covered this ground already. You just came to mind when I read it. Emmaus |
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1125 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 60996 | ||
Ed, I know this thread heading is ancient and we were actually talking about penance in sacramental confession, but I was reading a bible study on James today that made me think back to our convrsation for some reason. It does not address directly what we were discussing. I am not necessarily trying to reopen the thread. I just feel moved by the Spirit to share it with you since you came to mind. I tried to send just the link but it is a back page off the home page of a site and had too many symbols illegal in the forum's program. "James "Pleasure, Piety and Penance" 4:1-10 Study 7 Introduction In the last lesson we discovered that the fruit of false wisdom was disorder brought on by selfish ambition and jealousy. In this lesson, James sets before us an important question – is our goal in life to submit to God’s will or to spend our life fulfilling our own desires? James warns us that, if pleasure is the principle we choose to live by, there will be divisions and quarreling among us. James first identifies unfulfilled desires as the source of worldly antagonism, then draws a correlation between desires and behavior when he states, “You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war.” The term “desires” or “pleasures” is the Greek word hedonon from which the English word “hedonism” comes. Hedonism is that philosophy which views pleasure as the chief goal in life. James tells his readers that this passion resides in their hearts, waging a war to fulfill desire (4:1-3). He then strongly rebukes the reader for their spiritual unfaithfulness. Rather than yielding to worldly desires, James urges the reader to yield to the desire of the Spirit, which dwells in them (4:4-6). The process of yielding to the Spirit takes place by submitting to God and resisting the devil, accompanied by thorough repentance and cleansing of ones heart (4:7-10)." Catholic Scripture Study www.e3mil.com Emmaus |
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1126 | The olive tree graft in Romans | Acts 2:17 | Emmaus | 60994 | ||
Searcher , I thought the discussion was abut Joel being quotes in Acts. I am obviously not following this conversation closely enough. i think I will bow out. Emmaus |
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1127 | Church grafted into Israel? | Acts 2:17 | Emmaus | 60993 | ||
Searcher, I thought it said His Spirit would be poured out on all mankind. Does this not refer to the ingrafting of the Gentiles into the family of God and yet also point to the regrafting in of Israel before the Second Coming? Can not scripture be understood on more than one level? It seems to me that many prophetic passages have seen fulfillment in a literal sense in the time they were written, then in the New Testament and also again yet in the future. Why would the Apotle be quoting this passage if it was not being fulfilled as he spoke of it. yet we can see that there is to be also a future fulfillment at the end of our age, just as Acts ushered out the old age and ushered in this age. Of course I may be missing something, since I am rather weak on dispensational theology. Emmaus |
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1128 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60992 | ||
True brothet John. But the mystery in the details of how He does it. If things continue as they have been lately in Florida, I will begin to believe their system of election is also a divine mystery. Emmaus |
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1129 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60976 | ||
John, There is one school of thought on this matter that God in the general call give enough grace to elevate man's free will enough so that he can choose freely and then some still, as Adam and Eve did, choose against God and seal their fate by resisting the Holy Spirit as Stephen accusses the Sanhedrin in Acts. So that "many (all)are called, but few are chosen." Which of course leads to a discussion of irresistable grace and the various kinds of graces, e.g. sufficient, efficaious, et al. Election truly is one of the great divine mysteries. Emmaus |
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1130 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60833 | ||
John, In many ways Calvinist and Catholic doctrine on justification and even election and predestination are closer than most Calvinists and Catholics think. The principle difference on justification is that Calvinist and most Protestants believe that the grace of justification is extrinsic and Catholics believe that it is infused or perhaps intrinsic. Infused is the normal language of the Catholic side. The principle difference on Predestination is that Catholics can not hold to "double predestination" or the absolute postitive predestination to damanation, because that implies God doing evil, which cannot be. But we can hold to negative predestination of the reprobate, that is, God permissive will allows men by their own quilt to loose eternal salvation or a conditioned positive reprobation which occurs with God's forseeing of future sins. The dogmatic formula is "God, by and Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen sins, to eternal damnation." The flip side is the dogmatic formula, "God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predestined certain men to eternal blessedness." But the Church also affirms free will and maintains that the precise interaction of God's Predestination and His gift of free-will is a divine mystery which can not be fully undertood by man this side of the Beatific Vision. May I suggest that if you get the chance, stop by at The Catholic Corner bookstore on Alegeheny Ave at the circle in Towson and ask for two books I believe you will find very interesting and perhaps surprising. They are "Predestination" by Garrigou-Lagrange and "Not by Faith Alone" by Robert Sungenis. Both are very comprehensive on the two subjects. Emmaus |
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1131 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60825 | ||
John, The use of humor does not mean there is not a serious point being made nor was I trying to waste you time. The first paragraph of your own response to my "confession" itself displays a wry sense of humor. Emmaus |
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1132 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60824 | ||
John, "I don't like the idea that salvation requires anything in addittion to faith because I see it as detracting from the atonement of Christ by saying His death on the cross is in itself insufficient." I understand where you are coming from, but I believe that an intrinsically obedient faith does not detract from the atonement of Christ because the faith and its intrinsic works flow directly from the cross and therefore reflect god's glory rather than detract from it. "Why do you so strongly dislike the doctrine of "saved by faith alone"?" Because "faith alone" is a misleading phrase not found in Paul's writing, which actually detracts from the substance and power of God's gift of faith which empowers us. Emmaus |
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1133 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60821 | ||
John , I would agree that we can do nothing to earn our initial justification and can add nothing to His "cross work." But with his grace we can enter into his work with Him. Jesus did call us to take up our crosses and follow Him: "he who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me," (Matt 10:38) and "If any man would come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me.." (Matt 16:24). We can work with Him as His co-workers: "In every thing God (sunergei eis agathon))WORKS FOR GOOD WITH those who love Him and are called according to his purpose. (Rom 8:28) and "WORKING TOGETHER WITH (sunergountes)Him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain" (2 Cor 6:1)And this is the kind of work, the work of God, which we can participate in after our unmerited justification, that Paul had no trouble "boasting" about, (Rom 5:3;5:11;5:11). What single issue did you have in mind? Emmaus |
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1134 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60810 | ||
Joe, My commnet was a little tongue in cheek tease. Sounds like the work of preaching which is not a work is a lot like the all that does not mean all. Emmaus |
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1135 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60809 | ||
John, At last we are in agreement on something! That work (preaching the Gospel)is a work of grace, but it is done by grace. Please don't tell me it is not the kind of work James was speaking of and which is implicit in paul concept of faith. Emmaus |
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1136 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60781 | ||
John, Yes. Only because of grace does a man become "a partaker of His divine nature" and able to act in any way pleasing to God, which is to say as His adopted child. Whereas on the contrary, "works of the law" are works of man and carnal nature not of grace. The obedience of faith is a filial obedience of a child of God, whereas "works of the law" are the servile obedience of a slave. Emmaus |
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1137 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60769 | ||
John, "However, it is enough to excite to the utmost diligence in preaching and hearing, when we consider that by these means, some, even as many as the Lord hath ordained to eternal life, shall certainly be quickened and enabled to believe." Sounds like adding the "work" of preaching to Christ's finisfhed work in order to accomplish God's plan of salvation. Emmaus |
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1138 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60768 | ||
John, The "obedience of faith" is an instinsic part of faith, not separate from faith and is a completely different think from "works of the law." It is the differnce between the actions of a gracefilled child of God and a slave fearful of His wrath, as Paul himself points out in Romans. The Calvinist position creates an artifical and non existent (until the Reformation)disagreement between James and Paul who are both talking about the same saving faith, as anyone can see when they notice that both are using Abraham's faith as an example. We may as well consider our points made for the sake of the rest of the forum if for no other reason. Emmaus |
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1139 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60737 | ||
John, Paul adds nothing to faith, neither does he gut it of obedience. The "obedience of faith" is not a "work of law" but a work of God's grace in us his adopted sons and daughters in Christ. You seem to fear grace working in man so much, as if grace working in the flesh diminishes God rather than glorifies Him, but that is the point and result of the Incarnation, death and Resurrection, that we share in His divine life. 2 Peter 1:4. God is glorified in lifting us up, not diminished. Calvin was so worrried about God's glory. As if God has anything to worry about or needed Calvin to protect his dignity. Give God a break! Emmaus |
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1140 | How can anyone be saved? | 1 Cor 2:14 | Emmaus | 60723 | ||
John, "If you wish to say that the atonement was insufficient to save, but that works of men were needed to to complete the work of Christ, I can't stop you." I said no such thing. Please do not put words into my mouth. It is bad enough that you put the word "alone" into Paul's mouth next to faith when it was never there. Check your concordance and Greek lexicon. Paul knew the word for alone and used it, put not ever with faith. If he wanted to say "faith alone" he could have and would have and the Holy Spirit would have inspired him to do so. But he did not! Taking the obedience out of faith leaves an empty shell, a body without a spirit, which is dead as James said. If you are upset that Paul never said "faith alone" take it up with Paul and the Holy Spirit. Emmaus |
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