Results 4901 - 4920 of 5155
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Results from: Notes Author: EdB Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
4901 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82542 | ||
Steve Peter and Paul did disagree and while the Bible doesn't say for sure the implication was they settled it not divided over it. This is the important thing to remember the church is divided. We graciously say we agree on the essentials but disagree on the non essentials but the fact remains we disagree enough to divide. The picture to the world is Christians can't decide what to believe but they want me to tell me theirs is the only way. Watch the Mormon ads on TV they are playing this point. What to believe? Read the book of Mormon it is the definitive answer. They are winning converts while Christians argue over what formula to baptize in, whether to sprinkle or dip are we chosen or loved in, have Presbyters or congregational voting, have church on Sunday or Saturday, wear suits or shorts, sing hymns or choruses, use KVJ or NASB, if there is a trinity or not, are we pre trib or post, amillennial, pre or post, historicist, preterist, futurist, or spiritual, saved forever or just until we sin again, saved by works, by grace or by works fostered in grace, should I have faith in faith or in God, does God have to do anything or not, was the wine alcoholic or not, who did Cain marry and what about dinosaurs? Islam is winning converts while we sit around saying see the Catholic church is wrong look at all their problems. There are Christians actually rejoicing over the fact there is a scandal within the Catholic church now. Never once considering the pain to the victims and the heartbreak to the faithful attendees. They just want to see Catholic church on the ropes. These are fellow Christians that we have so smugly divided from disagreeing on “essentials”. There was scandal where a son of big name denominational preacher bilked people out of their life savings in a bad stock deals. Denominational Churches across this state have raised funds for his defense. Yet not one has raised a cent to help the poor people that lost everything in his scheme. the battle cry is we can't let him be convicted it will make the denomination look bad. Yes we agree on essentials but we deeply divide over everything else. And that division is what the world see! EdB |
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4902 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82548 | ||
Joe I thought you worked with cults? You never heard “Christians can't make up their minds what to believe?” Almost every cult member I have talked to said that to me in one form or another. I hate to tell you but professionalism and polished doesn't win prisoners to Islam, it is the united front, Islam presents to them. By the way our prison system is being overrun by Islam. Professionalism and polish isn't winning Mormons it is family values and a church united. Yes there is a Reformed Mormon church and I suspect less than 1 in a 1000 know that. But I imagine every one of the thousand know the Baptist think Presbyterians are wrong and vice versa. Of all the religions, all the denominations, all the churches that have tried to evangelize me, I have never been evangelized by a Presbyterian. Maybe they thought I wasn't elected. ;-) EdB |
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4903 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82563 | ||
Joe "The bottom line is that unsaved people merely use denominational differences as an excuse to continue in sinful rebellion against God. I have yet to meet anyone who has said, "I want to be a Christian, but I can't because of all the denominations." Nor have I heard many, if any, Christian evangelists proclaiming their denominational labels in place of Christ and Him crucified (which, incidentally, is precisely what Mormons do)." I have in both cases. Rather than trading jabs with you, cause I’m sure if I said red you would say blue. Can you honestly say you believe Christ is happy with the divided church? If not do you think it is incumbent on us to ‘attempt’ to correct the problem or should we ignore the situation and go merrily on our way? EdB |
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4904 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82642 | ||
Joe I will pass on everything you said, however on this I must comment. While you might call what your follow reformed theology it is really Calvinism. Let's call it for what it is. Many reformers did not hold that view. And your right I could never follow the teachings of Calvin. He created God in his own image and sadly many have been deceived by his tragic view of God. Calvinism is fatalistic removing all responsibility for man’s action from man and basing the final outcome to God’s responsibility. All love and desire to worship God is only present if God so wills it and without that desire man is a destined to eternal damnation. Now I’m sure you will want to tell me I’m wrong and that is okay. But the God I serve, the God of the Bible, that God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Goid who sent His only begotten Son for whosoever should believe, is far different that the god of Calvin. EdB |
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4905 | Debate Arminian/Calvinist views? | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 82645 | ||
Joe I wish to withdraw my last append to you. I regret pushing the submit button. I really don't care if you call yourself a follower of reform theology and if Calvin floats your boat fine. I also withdraw from this thread, it makes no sense to try to explain something that everybody seems content to live with. EdB |
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4906 | Salvation is open to all! | 2 Pet 3:9 | EdB | 243495 | ||
2 Peter 3:9 (NASB) 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. Matthew 18:13-14 (NASB) 13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish. Mark 10:26-27 (NASB) 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, "Then who can be saved?" 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." Luke 2:10 (NASB) 10 But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; Luke 3:6 (NASB) 6 AND ALL FLESH WILL SEE THE SALVATION OF GOD.'" Luke 14:20-21 (NASB) 20 "Another one said, 'I have married a wife, and for that reason I cannot come.' 21 "And the slave came back and reported this to his master. Then the head of the household became angry and said to his slave, 'Go out at once into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.' John 6:40 (NASB) 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." Romans 1:16 (NASB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Romans 5:18 (NASB) 18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. Romans 10:13 (NASB) 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." 1 Timothy 2:3-4 (NASB) 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Titus 2:11 (NASB) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, Hebrews 2:9 (NASB) 9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. 1 John 2:2 (NASB) 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. |
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4907 | Grow in grace? | 2 Pet 3:18 | EdB | 73551 | ||
Mommapbs The more of the Word we pour into our lives the greater the changes that take place. I'm convinced if we will saturate ourselves with the Word the way we do so many things of the world that we would be almost terrified to know how God could/would use us. EdB |
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4908 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228601 | ||
Tim I come from a Arminian background but always considered Rom 7 and 1 John 1:8-10 or even up to including 1 John 2:2 as more or less proof that we can't live totally sinless. I further understand this to explain why Jesus is our eternal high priest that makes intercession for us today. If Christian could and do live sinless lives all they would need is perfect sacrifice for their sins. Then once they are cleansed they would have no further need of an intercessor, since there would be nothing to intercede for. one might say this is a process and it is doing the process of sanctification (if you will) that we still need an intercessor. However the passage in 2 Cor 5:17 doesn't say the process is on going but rather complete and finished when we are born again. Many want to say scripture assures a believer of freedom brought on by his sin nature and we are only exposed to sin from outside temptation brought on by the adversary. However 1 John 2:15-17 tell us believers to turn from the things of this world. Specifically naming them, Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eyes and Pride of Life. These to me are internal. My body often lusts after food as proven by my vast warehouse of potential muscle. When a friend comes by with a really super nice super sporty car, one that I know I would love to have but never will I feel a twinge of envy. When I see a horribly disfigured person I catch myself backing away from them some may describe it as recoiling in shock or horror. But in any case I would think that show less than perfect love which is sin. All of these things should be gone if I am a new creation and freed from sin which would be the only way to live in sinless perfection before God. Thoughts????? I know I addressed Tim but I would like to hear others. I am really interested in New Testament scripture that support either side of this discussion. |
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4909 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228603 | ||
Doc What scriptures do you lean on to support this position? Tim mentioned he felt Romans 7 was Paul talking of his life before salvation. Do you agree? What of 1 John 1:8-2:2 Where does 1 John 2:15-17 which is written to Christians come into play in all of this? Please if we can let us not make this a "this camp says this but my camp says that" type of discussion. I really don't care how Calvin or Arminian, Wesley or Finney or even Parham felt or taught. I want to know what people on the forum feel based on their understanding of scripture. |
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4910 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228605 | ||
Beja I like that analogy of the garden and weeds but what scriptures do you base that on. I find when most people approach this subject the do so from experience of their own lives. The believe they are saved (they may or may not be) and they know they battles they may or may not fight with sin. The thing I find most shocking is many contibute sinless perfection to specific camps of thought yet I who has come out of most of those camps of thought always felt 1 john 2:8 as being very clear and concise that we all still sin. I have recently been told that is all wrong and I'm trying to understand how what scriptures people us to support or oppose Sinless Perfection. |
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4911 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228614 | ||
Tim You make the statement above that "My understanding of Scripture is that the sarx is truly dead for a Christian and we no longer have to listen to it." I'm not trying to be cute or argmentative but if sarx was dead for a Christian wouldn't it be silent? When something is dead it no longer communicates or in this case tempts. We say we are free from sin but we still talk about how sin tempts us. Frankly on this issue I never understood because to me sin before I gave my life to Christ acted the same as it does now. The lust of my flesh is still very real, the lust of my eyes is still very real and pride of life is still very real. I would think if I was truely dead to sin nothing of these would be able to talk to me. |
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4912 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228617 | ||
Actually I didn't mention 1 John 2:8 and if I did it was by accident, however I think it fits here also. I like your analyst of Philippians and again I think to me it confirms Sinless Perfection while it should certianally be our goal is not obtainable in a imperfect world by imperfect flesh. Once we have our incorruptable bodies we can live in Sinless Perfection. I also agree you post on sanctication is excellent work. Thank you for it. However I would like to hear others thoughts. |
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4913 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228619 | ||
Tim Again not to be cute or argumentate here but even if 1 John 1:8 (and yes 2:8 was a typo) was written in response to Gnostics, doesn't the truth conveyed here apply universally? If not wouldn't God through John said I'm talking to Gnostics here the rest of you ignore this? If we go to 1 John 3:6 which you referrenced you qualified it more than the actual passage does. You said if we "keep on" sinning but the passage says point blank "sins" Whoever sins has neither seen or knew Him. I this tells us that people that have been "walking in sanctification process" were deceived? They weren't saved (didn't know Jesus) when they began their walk. Or is it like you said keeps sinning and then the question is how my times can you commit the same sin and still be said to know Jesus? |
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4914 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228621 | ||
"Scripture gives us the promise that if we walk in the Spirit, we won't sin." I totally agree but I guess my question is can mortal man walk in constantly in the spirit in this fallen world? I don't think any passage Romans 7 or 1 John 1:8 gives the Christian a blank check to sin. But I think Paul in chapter 7 admits that no matter how hard he tries there are times he does slip. I guess my real thinking on the matter is this. After salvation I don't think our life in regard to sin will effect where we spend eternity. I believe that will be determined by our heart. If we in our hearts truly love God and love our neighbors any sins after salvation will not effect our eternal destination. We are to live as sinlessly as possible but sin itself will not determine our eternity but rather our eternity will be decided by the condition of our hearts. To some this will be sinless perfection if possible to others it will be making mistakes, stumbling and falling and getting back up. Again this is no blank check to sin. We are admonished to obey. Jesus said if you love me you will obey me John 14:15. I think this is what scripture means when it says we are dead to sin. Not that we will never sin again but that sin is no longer the determiner of our eternity. Does that make any sense? |
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4915 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228623 | ||
Actually Doc I do value and cherish what the founding fathers said. I just view founding fathers as men that lived long before Arminian or Calvin. :-) I stumble over the passage we are dead to sin. To me if something is dead it can no longer effect us. Yet we know sin still occurs in people that claim to be saved. Is their claim of salvation wrong? That if we are truly saved we wouldin fact walk in sinless perfection. Do we have any scripture that supports that? or Is this statement we are dead to sin, really telling us sin no longer determines our eternal status? Do we have any scripture that may support that? I thought I knew what the early church father believed and taught on this but now I'm not sure I have the their full beliefs and I don't think I remember if I ever knew what scripture they based their opinions on. That is why I'm asking for help. Yhoughts comments and please do not take anything I said as a put down or challenge to your view of theology |
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4916 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228624 | ||
"But it is noticeable that he concludes the section by declaring that, in spite of what is carnal within him, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made him free from the law of sin and death. He then goes on to explain why." Then do you feel this supports my hypothesis that sin is no longer a determining factor in our lives anymore. What determines our salvation is the condition of our hearts? That is why Jesus is making constant intercession for us, because our sin don't count? Or do they count but in a different way? If we look at Romans 7 Paul makes the statement that sin is dead to the believer. Yet I think each of us will admit we still deal with it. If something is dead it is no longer a factor. Are we not believers? Or did Paul mean sin was dead as in no longer the determining factor in our relationship with God? |
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4917 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228628 | ||
Actually Paul wording death to sin also occurs in Romans 6:2 (NKJV) 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? In fact this whole passage has merit in this discussion. Romans 6:1-14 (NKJV) 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Verse 14 is focus of my hypothesis that sin no longer has dominion over you. No longer controls your destiny? |
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4918 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228629 | ||
Add to that above Romans 8:2 (NKJV) 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. |
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4919 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228631 | ||
If we are free of the law, and dead to sin how is it we still sin and that sin can decide our destiny? What are we free of? Man always had the choice to sin or not. Man always had the temptations so what changed? Again I'm not being argumentative and actually we have strayed from my original question. Everyone agrees we are free from the law, Sin no longer has a hold on us, and that we are dead to sin. But what has changed in the relationship of man to sin? No one will claim David had to sin with Bathsheba he did so on his own. So what changed? |
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4920 | Is sinless perfection possible on earth? | 1 John 1:8 | EdB | 228632 | ||
Is Abraham in heaven? How was his relationship any different than ours? Yet we say sin has no dominion over us but we also say sin can take us to hell. Is it sin or our the condition of our hearts? |
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