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Results from: Notes Author: Curtnsally Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | which bible translation is true? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 31836 | ||
I agree with Ric and use NASB as well, but I think the question may be larger than this. What is the Bible? I believe the Bible is the history of God's relationship with man. I think, if viewed in this context, that nearly all translations can lead one to understand God's relationship with man, and ultimately His amazing grace toward us. In this sense, they are each true and equally valid, though some may get us there easier than others. I would not be comfortable reading the original Greek, as I am poor at language skills. Some find it difficult to read the King James, as it is written in language of the 1600's. Some find difficulty reading NASB, and prefer the Living Bible. God is not bound by man's wording and neither are we, thanks to His providence. The real question is... is the Bible true in the larger sense? On this, there is no doubt to all those who have studied with an open mind. God loves you and me and He says so in a thousand ways... if we will listen. Praise His name! Curt |
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2 | Who? What? When? Where? How? Why? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33228 | ||
Here is a question for you... why do you ask? | ||||||
3 | Did Satan know God's plan for salvation | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33242 | ||
I respectfully disagree. While there is not a specific reference that I can think of that indicates Satan foreknew God's plan of salvation, there is plenty of Scripture which infers this knowledge. In Matthew 4, Satan calls Jesus the Son of God. He specifically targets Jesus, tempting Him to worship the devil instead of God, and offering Jesus all the kingdoms of this world. Also, in verse 6, Satan quotes Scripture... indicating knowledge of the truth. Why would Satan do this unless he knew something was up? Matthew 4 1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread." 4 Jesus answered, "It is written: "Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." 5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone." 7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." 10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." 11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him. We also read that Judas was an incarnation of the devil, sitting with Christ, knowing full well that Jesus had the keys to eternal life. John 6 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God." 70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) Then there is this: James 2 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. Satan fully understands who God is and who Christ is. Satan chose his path and has fought God every step of the way, knowing that his battle was lost. |
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4 | Did Satan know God's plan for salvation | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33262 | ||
Let me begin by saying that I am not trying too hard to argue this point... I have entered the fray to try and learn from the discussion. I do believe it is a stretch to say conclusively that Satan did not know God's plan for salvation. The best I can come to, after reading you posts and giving consideration, is that I don't know for sure. Let me respond individually to the Scriptures you quote: 1 Corinthians 2:7 Paul here is speaking about wisdom which was hidden from men. The very next verse says, "None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory". Does not this verse refer to men? Thus, in my view, it does not confirm nor deny Satan's knowledge. Colossians 1:26 Again, the same thought... "the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints." refers to man's knowledge of God's plan. Romans 16:25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began". ... "now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him." Same thought. 1 Timothy 3:16 Not sure how you meant to apply this Scripture to your point. Let me postulate a few somewhat rhetorical questions: If Satan did not fully understand the diety of Christ, does this not excuse Satan for being wrong? Can Satan be the "father of the lie" if he does not know and understand the truth to be truth? What does James 2:19 mean, if it does not mean that Satan and his minions have intellectual knowledge of Christ? In Genesis, did the serpent know that he was telling a lie to Eve? How did he know? Why did Satan offer Jesus rule over all kingdoms of the earth if He would deny the Father? Is it possible that Satan had intellectual knowledge, but that his fallenness was in his failure to worship God? Do you think Satan now knows and understands God's plan for salvation? Thanks for jousting with me. Its an interesting question, for sure. Curt |
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5 | Did Satan know God's plan for salvation | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33369 | ||
A brief response, point by point (* is me): --------------- Can Satan see inside God? * Not sure, but Satan certainly knows who God is. If Satan knew of all this, why provoke God if he knew he was doomed to the Lake of fire? * Possibly, for the same reason that we sin, even though we know there is a judgment. If he didn't realize this before he got kicked out of Heaven, then when did he figure it out? * Seems to me that Satan was kicked out for knowing and not believing... or knowing and not worshiping God. Was it when God told him that the woman's seed would bruise his head? * 1John3:8 "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the BEGINNING. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work." What then is sin? Knowing and not believing? Or not knowing at all? Why have Jesus crucified if Satan knew that Jesus would rise from the grave triumphantly and ascend into Heaven? * This is a convincing question, but one could also ask why Satan has done all that he has since the resurrection if he now knows the consequences. You think Satan understood what Jesus meant by destroying the temple and rebuilding it in 3 days? * Not sure, but I would lean toward yes. Again, if he knew, then why crucify him? * See above. According to 1 Cor 2:8... none of the rulers of this age knew. I think this weighs much more in favor of Satan not knowing. * I don't follow your reasoning. Why does the knowledge of rulers bear on Satan's knowledge? One could say that rulers today don't understand either. Does this mean Satan still doesn't know? Why not a different death to disrupt the plan of salvation and maybe just stone him to death? * I can't explain Satan's choices, but clearly he has made wrong choices many times. Satan thought he HAD Jesus when he died. * This is interesting, and as a Christian, I would like to believe this, as there is a certain poetic justice in it. The difficulty I have is in letting Satan off the hook by saying that he really didn't know what he was doing. I think Satan knew, but I'm not sure how much he knew. Certainly, he knew enough to be held accountable. I reiterate my earlier point... Is it possible that Satan had intellectual knowledge, but that his fallenness was in his failure to worship God? ------------------ Well.... all right already... enough about Satan! Let's worship God who will cast Satan into the lake of fire! Praise God for His grace and mercy toward us! Blessings Curt |
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6 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33409 | ||
Blessings! With all due respect, I think your answer is a bit too simplistic. Consider this verse: Romans 9 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Watch this... 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. Seems to say that Esau did not self-select. or this... Romans 8 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Seems to say that we could not make the right choice without intercession by the Spirit. or this... Romans 11 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Seems to say God will save ALL of Israel in spite of their bad free-will choice, based on His election and promise to Abraham et al. Scripture to think on, Blessings Curt |
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7 | Did Satan know God's plan for salvation | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33429 | ||
Amen! | ||||||
8 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33432 | ||
Brother Zach I dont know if you have been following some of the other discussions on free will, but let me muddy things up a bit. Consider these verses: Romans 9 9 For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son." 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Watch this... 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. Seems to say that Esau did not self-select. or this... Romans 8 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Seems to say that we could not make the right choice without intercession by the Spirit. or this... Romans 11 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Seems to say God will save ALL of Israel in spite of their bad free-will choice, based on His election and promise to Abraham et al. If the concept of "unequal grace" seems unfair, read Matthew 20:1-15. Scripture to think on... your thoughts? Blessings Curt |
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9 | do we have any free will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33471 | ||
Tim, thanks! I can't get too far into this now, but we can catch up a bit later... and thanks for the heads up on the Rom 9 thread. In the mean time, I agree that Rom 9:10 is national, not individual... BUT... doesn't it show us something of the character of God? I know you agree that it does, but the difficult question is: WHAT does it show us about the character of God? And, how does this jive with the rest of Scripture? Ahhh. There is a thought provoker for sure! Let's think about it, and catch up soon. Meanwhile, I'll try to read some of the previous posts. Blessings Curt |
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10 | Which is higher, heaven or the planets? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33514 | ||
Not sure the nature of your question, but if you look at Scripture, it seems that heaven can mean the sky, or heaven can mean the place we go after this life. Revelation 9 1 Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth This clearly refers to heaven as the sky, and since the star fell from it, one would assume that heaven extends beyond the planets. The heaven we go to after this life is, I believe outside of the fallen realm of this world. Jesus stated that His kingdom was not of this world. Is this what you were driving at, or did you have a different purpose in your question? Blessings Curt |
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11 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33528 | ||
Hi Ben Well, this isn't going to be much of a debate unless some others jump in. I'm pretty much where you are. Can you expound a bit on your issue with unlimited atonement? Curt |
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12 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33529 | ||
By the way, wouldn't it be the five points of Calvin (T-U-L-I-P)? The third of which is Limited atonement? Curt |
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13 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33585 | ||
Greetings Emmaus Do you live on the Road to Emmaus? (sorry, I couldn't resist... I have sinned!) I want to greet you and welcome you to this discussion. I fully agree with Ben, there is no need for this to be an "in-house" debate. I'm not even sure which house we are in at this point! We're really just getting started on a debate that has run deep and wide for several centuries. I'm sure my fellow post writers would agree that none of us can claim to be final authorities, or even authorities, as much as some may know on this topic. It gets very complex very quickly. We are merely humble seekers of the truth. So post away my friend! And I'd like to hear your response to Ben's question as well. Blessings Curt |
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14 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33588 | ||
Hi Joe I'm glad you jumped in! We may need a few five point Calvinists around when this discussion gets going. By the way, are you "ReformER Joe" or "ReformED Joe"? I would think in the PCA it would be Reformed Joe, unless of course you are reading Ogden's book The New Reformation (an excellent read, by the way). However, if you are a reformER, I sure could use your help over here in the PCUSA! lol On your point, would the "all men" verses not also signify the opening of God's covenant with Israel to the whole of mankind? In other words, not just different classes of people, but ethnically different people groups... actually all people groups. Paul certainly makes this case in a variety of places to the Gentiles. Blessings Curt |
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15 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33602 | ||
I can answer your last question! Here is what the Catholic Encyclopedia says: John Calvin .... His mother, Jeanne Le Franc, born in the Diocese of Cambrai, is mentioned as "beautiful and devout"; she took her little son to various shrines and brought him up a good Catholic.... There you have it! The closest a Catholic can get to Calvin is to BE Calvin. Sleepy time now... Back to the fray tomorrow. Blessings Curt BTW our church is right next door to TSU on York Road (www.centralpc.org). We live in Lutherville (odd for a Calvinist, I suppose. Should live in Calvinville, or something. Shew, it is getting late. |
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16 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33604 | ||
Hopefully not when it was Towson Normal School... just Towson State College. Curt |
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17 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33632 | ||
In light of Romans 3:10-11, who is it that desires God, apart from God giving that desire? Romans 3 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. Who gives us the ability to desire Him, according to His purposes? Romans 9 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? Is it God plus my actions, or is God's grace sufficient and complete? Ephesians 2 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. I struggle with this as well, my friend. But this is Scripture, thus we must regard it carefully as we can. If I had to answer your question, I would likely say that Christ rejects no one who the Father has called. John 5:21 (Jesus speaking) "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes." John 6:37 (Jesus speaking) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." Blessings Curt |
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18 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33636 | ||
Who said anything about narrow? We have no evidence to show that God's mercy is narrow. Yes, everyone is doomed to Hell, except for the saving grace of God. The good news is this: There IS a saving grace of God! You speak in generalities, but you have yet to offer your views on these verses Romans 9. What do they mean? I struggle with this, as you do. The reason I opened this discussion was to think it through together... not to confirm what I want to believe, but to try to see what God is saying to us. These Scriptures are in the Bible and are worthy of our study. To respond to your closing opinion, perhaps God invites all? or at least most? do we know? Blessings, Curt |
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19 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33656 | ||
Hi Pastor Tim Tim I don't disagree with you on the one hand, but I lean toward saying that these Scriptures refer both to the position you have stated and to the issue of salvation. If we back up a bit in Romans 11, Paul talks about the covenant with Israel. Speaking to Gentiles, he explains the nature of God and His covenants: Romans 11 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. (I take the first part to mean the same as Eph 2:9. In the second part he is saying that God hardened Israel's heart to open the way for the Gentiles... to serve His sovereign purpose) 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (But God will remain true to His covenant, even though Israel's heart is hard, ie they have rejected the New Covenant in Jesus) 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, (Again, Israel does not believe the gospel, BUT they are elect... chosen of God... and they will be saved... not because of what they do, but because of who they are... ie God's elect) 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (God's promise is true... He will not go back on His word... the covenant applies in spite of their hardness) Clearly this is a discussion of Israel as a nation, and God's covenant with the Jews. Yet, it reveals the character of God in that: 1) He chooses whom He will, and 2) once chosen, He is faithful in salvation. Words like "I will take away their sins" and "all of Israel will be saved" leave no doubt in my mind that we are talking salvation, both as a people group and individually. I don't think you can separate the two, as what would that mean? Certainly, the people of Israel were "elect"... chosen of God in the covenant with Abraham. Why do we find it difficult to follow that God could choose others through the new covenant? Supporting this we have other verses such as: John 5:21 (Jesus speaking) "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes." The sovereignty of the Father extends to the Son, and He chooses... not our choice. John 6:37 (Jesus speaking) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." Not "all who choose Me" but "all who are given to Me". Is there anyone who seeks God on his own? Romans 3:11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. Thus, even our ability to seek God must be a gift from God. Are we not, then, chosen? We often quote Eph 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. which says that grace (God's means of salvation) is a gift, not dependent on our works. But read on to Eph 2:10 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. God is sovereign over kings and kingdoms to work His will. Is He not also sovereign over us as individuals to work His will? You closed by saying, "He is making the point that all who come in faith receive the promise." I would agree, but add that those who come only come because He draws them. It is always God first... a theme that I believe is consistent throughout Scripture, including the Old and New Covenants. Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (The "better hope" is Christ) John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." I'll stop there and let you noodle on this much. Blessings Curt |
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20 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33661 | ||
Another thought (I'm on a roll now!) Why did God choose Paul? Was He seeking God, or did God choose Paul to execute His sovereign will? To answer my own question, God clearly chose Paul to take the gospel message to the Gentiles. Paul (as Saul) was persecuting God as we learn in Scripture... clearly he was not seeking God. Yet God chose him for His purpose. This "election" was both national (for the Gentiles) and personal (for Paul's salvation). |
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