Results 61 - 74 of 74
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Results from: Notes On or After: Thu 12/31/70 Author: Theo-Minor Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Which one are we not going to keep? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 125883 | ||
It's #125810 | ||||||
62 | Guidelines on rebuking | Matthew | Theo-Minor | 125878 | ||
Look Leslie ... You cited 116 passages to substantiate what amounted to little more than a paragraph once you take all the references out. That was overkill. The note was barely intelligible with all the notations, and it took me several minutes to digest the simplicity of what you were trying to say because it was too hard to make a coherent sentence out what I consider little more than a mess. I looked up the passages you cited, and most of them had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Point of fact, most of them had nothing to do with what you were saying. You quoted scriptures that directly regard to the selecting of church elders, the admonishing of other Christians, the chastisement of other Christians, etc. The original question you were responding to was when to rebuke someone that is NOT a Christian, and the answer to that, when you are a relatively young Christian that doesn't have the knowledge to know the answer to that question, is never. Further, recognizing that the person asking was lacking knowledge, you shouldn't overload them. If I were a young Christian, that would have intimidated me. Then it would have confused me. God is not the author of confusion (I know that passage refers to something else, but the principle is appropriate). Now, consider what I said judgmental if you wish, but I considered it instruction. We will know a vine by its fruits. What I saw was an overkill of scripture, poorly quoted according to their contexts and applications, and this is indicative of someone that wants to impress other people. If your truest intention was to instruct with all thoroughness, then my mistake. I willingly own my error and apologize. If your intention was to impress with overkill, then my instruction was good and appropriate. Whichever the case may be, it was still overbearing, confusing, and potentially intimidating to a young Christian. Remember that less is more. We only need two or three witnesses to establish a matter. In this particular case, one set of scripture says virtually everything you said. See 1 Thess 5:12-26. In direct regard to "your work," all I saw was a bunch of quotations. When I compared them to one of my study bibles, the quotations were awful familiar in organization. I will not say you copied someone else's work, but I will say that it is suspicious to me. Take my words for what they are worth. My intentions are good. But I'm done with this conversation unless we have something nice to say to one another. I don't want strife, and I'm certain it's not wanted on this forum either. Theo-Minor |
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63 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125864 | ||
Well said, Mark. Especially the end. It looks sound to me. Theo-Minor |
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64 | What Is The Meaning Of Life? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 125854 | ||
Amen to that sister! All is vanity, a chasing after the wind. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Eccl 12:13-14) Theo-Minor |
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65 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125834 | ||
Love your neighbor as yourself. That is the commandment of Christ. What matters in the end is that we all adhere to the doctrine: Believe in Jesus Christ, whom God raised from the dead, and love one another as he gave us commandment. As long as pride exists, we will never be in complete agreement, but having minor differences in doctrine does not make anyone any less of a Christian. Some believe in full submersion baptism. Others just a sprinkle. Some believe in speaking in tongues for this day in age, others that the gifts are only for the past. There are tons of doctrines out there. If we believe in Jesus, that God raised him from the dead, and love one another as he loved us, we are Christians, and that's that. The respector of persons deal I have to disagree with you on. I believe that who they were before God chose them is exactly the point. If God can choose a shepherd to become a king, he can choose a middle school student to learn the secrets that will baffle scholars. Whether or not this can be attributed to favoritism ... I choose not to have an opinion. Going through the many scriptures, which I choose not to expound upon right now, there are dozens of examples demonstrating precisely what it means to be a respector of persons, and scripture clearly tells us time and again that God does not act according to this behavior. |
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66 | Guidelines on rebuking | Matthew | Theo-Minor | 125829 | ||
You're absolutely right. Correcting is necessary. So let's start here. Be mindful of who you attribute credit for such things. It seems to me that all you've accomplished is to plagerize the Word of God in calling it your own, and by writing this jumbled mess, I got the impression that what you really wanted was a pat on the back. Here's a passage you might find interesting: Judges 15:16-18 And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have [I] slain a thousand men. And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking, that he cast away the jawbone out of his hand, and called that place Ramath-lehi. And he was sore athirst, and called on the Lord, and said, [Thou] hast given this great deliverance into the hand of your servant: and now shall I die for thirst, and fall into the hand of the uncircumcised? You can hardly make anything out of that mess. I know this will seem insulting to you. My intentions are good. "This is my own work, and there is no copyright on it" is about as prideful as I've heard in a long time. Theo-Minor |
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67 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125827 | ||
When the scripture is silent, but a decision must be made, the Holy Spirit makes the call. 1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him. Remember that love is the point. If you're talking about a point of doctrine, if it's not written, it's not doctrine, it's opinion. If it's a matter of behavior, "love one another" is the key. I came to that conclusion in a single night. I had no scripture to support it, but went to a Bible study and argued church Elders into the ground because it was so solid it tore their doctrine to shreds. I discovered later that I had quoted as many as twenty scriptures in the New Testament that I had never read. The understanding is this: that love is the key. The New Testament can be understood by the doctrine of love. As for all the denominations, I think it's evil. Multiple denominations exist because of pride. Period. Two people had a discussion. One brought up a new and possibly valid point. The other disagreed. The one doing the disagreeing was in control, so the other left and made a new church denomination. Point of fact, the very first church split was over the dispute of the translation of a single word. How's THAT for pride?! Respector of persons ... What was David when God chose him? A shepherd, yes? Moses, the adopted son of Pharoah? John, Peter, and James ... fishermen? I hear what you're saying, but did God respect them over others, or were they simply the ones He chose? Once chosen, is it becoming of God to abandon His promises to them? SOMEone had to be chosen. David was chosen because he had a heart after God's own. Who knows about Moses, or Elijah, or Jeremiah, or Isaiah. Again, SOMEone had to be chosen. That makes them blessed in my opinion, not respected more than others. The variety went from shepherd to king. By the same qualifications he chose David as a child, so, too, could he choose a young, unlearned person. That's sort of the point. There is no respect of persons with God. He chooses whom He wills, regardless of their station or experience. With Esau ... remember that Esau traded his birthright for a "bowl of that red stuff there." Also, the word hate being used there, in both the Hebrew and the Greek, is a word that means something more akin to "loved less." And this, because he traded his birthright for a bowl of soup. Theo-Minor |
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68 | Guidelines on rebuking | Matthew | Theo-Minor | 125819 | ||
NATALYI "Judging someone to see where they're at in order to help them" is what kalos was originally talking about. This would fall into the category of "discernment." As you say, if you don't know where their troubles are, how can you meet them on their own level? We should be all things to all people, and that's an impossible thing without observation (i.e. judgement/discernment). As for talking to people about OTHER people's problems ... that's called gossip, otherwise known as "backbiting." Such a thing is in defiance of "love your neighbor as yourself," and Paul clearly tells us that backbiters will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you need to talk to a person directly about THEIR problem, just consider the simplicity of the situation. If someone is murdering, you tell them, "you are murdering. Stop." This is not "judgment." This is a fact. As you say, you'll know them by their fruits. The difference, I think, between statement and judgment is like the proverbial vine. You can't tell if the vine is good by looking at the vine. You can't see the sap. You have no idea how strong it really is. You know absolutely nothing until the vine brings forth fruit. Thus, you should not chop up the vine, assuming that it is no good. Once it bears fruit, you can see if the fruit is good. If it is not, you are not making a judgment on the vine to say, "It has brought forth bad fruit." Such a statement is simply that; a statement. Just remember that if you do all things with a spirit of love, you do well. Sometimes people will be offended when you try to help them. Do what you can, and otherwise pray. Theo-Minor |
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69 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125813 | ||
Ahhhh, I see. My mistake. I am personally of a dispensational theology. I believe that we should go from particular to general, concluding facts of doctrine from solid, discernable scripture, and not try to interpret scripture according to doctrine. If it doesn't say it, you may, if you choose, apply a principle to your own life that you may have gleaned from scripture, but that doesn't make it doctrinal fact, and any such theories should be kept in this light. If something is not said, it is not said, no matter how much we might like it to be. Origen did make an interesting point in The First Principles ... To paraphrase ('cause it's not right in front of me), "Those things that the apostles wanted us to know, they said clearly, and repeatedly. As for the rest, the mysteries of God are reserved for those that seek God earnestly and desire the deeper things of Holy Scripture." I do believe that there are mysteries in the Word, but once again I have to say that they are discernable through solid scripture. You simply need the spirit working in you to put the pieces together, and you need a good, solid background in the word. As for who's qualified ... anyone is qualified. Remember that God chose a young man to be one of the greatest prophets; he chose a child to slay a giant and become a king; he chose fishermen and farmers to become the ministers of a new age. God is no respector of persons. Someone can look at something once with a pure heart open to learn and see a mystery that eludes scholars. I do think, however, that with the more extensive background of a scholar, and with the obvious desire to learn evident by the wealth of knowledge they consume, a scholar is more likely to discover something deep and new. But again, this is not absolute. Theo-Minor |
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70 | Must we observe the law of God? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 125810 | ||
The letter of the law kills. The spirit brings life. (2 Cor 3:6) The spirit of the law is "love your neighbor as yourself." This is the fulfillment of the law. (Gal 5:14) If you keep this, you will, by default, keep all the others. A person that loves his neighbor as himself will not murder his neighbor, sleep with his neighbor's wife, contrive mischiefs to acquire the possessions of his neighbor, steal from his neighbor, etc. Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not covet; and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the the fulfilling of the law. To keep the spirit of the law is to love one another. To keep the letter of the law is to scrutinize the words. I always like to use the illustration of my children. If they are jumping on the bed, and I were to hang a sign that said, "No jumping on the bed," I would walk in five minutes later upon hearing a ruckus and find one of them flying through the air. I stop them and ask, don't the rules say, "No jumping on the bed?" "Yes," they would say, "but we weren't jumping on the bed. We were jumping OFF the bed." This is the poison that is the letter of the law. You can scrutinize the words to find a loophole of self justification, but you can't fool your own heart. The Spirit convicts, and there is no excuse if you know that you should love one another. I don't need to know, "Do not murder." I will love my neighbor as myself and thereby not murder him. There isn't a single commandment we have that is not to the point and purpose of love. Paul tells us that the goal of their instruction is love from a pure heart, clear conscience, and sincere faith. (1 Tim 1:5) Jesus tells us that all the law and the prophets depend upon the two great commands for their existence. (Matt 22:36-40) John says that if a man loves his brother, he walks in the light, and there is no occassion of stumbling in him. (1 John 2:10) If love was the commandment of Jesus (John 13:34-35); and all the law and the prophets depend on loving God and loving each other for their existence (Matt 22:36-40); and if any commandment we have is summed up by love (Rom 13:8-10); and if love is the fulfillment of the law (Gal 5:14); and if we love, we walk in the light and there is no occasion of stumbling in us ... then it is safe to assume that love is the point. It always was, it always will be. We are not under the law. We are under love. If a man thinks to find justification by the law, he gives up his claim to salvation. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect to you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. If we are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8), and you are "fallen" from grace, then you have lost grace. If you do not have the grace, you do not have the salvation that comes by said grace. Theo-Minor |
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71 | Guidelines on rebuking | Matthew | Theo-Minor | 125804 | ||
kalos ... brother/sister? All my love to you. I wasn't angry or anything ... just confused as to what you were trying to get at. I wondered if perhaps we were on different pages. I don't disagree with what you said at all. What you seemed to be saying just didn't appear to have any application to what I was getting at, which was, "don't rebuke anyone for any reason if you don't have the knowledge to understand what you are doing or why." I supported some of your other arguements, by the way. You strike me as well read. I hope to see a bunch of good topics come up. Theo-Minor |
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72 | Guidelines on rebuking | Matthew | Theo-Minor | 125799 | ||
It is not a matter of discernment I speak about. I speak directly concerning judgement leading to condemnation. I'm well aware of the passages you've noted. Keep in mind the contexts and meanings. Most of your examples are in reference to examination. This I do not disagree with. We should judge (examine) things and judge (determine) what we should do about them after careful judgement (discernment) of the options in the matter. We should not, however, pass judgement (determine guilt) on others. We will some day judge both the world and the angels (determine guilt), but we are not yet standing before the judgement seat in new and perfected bodies, glorified and in the image of the ascended Christ, that we might pass said judgements. The Corinthians were taking each other to court over trivial matters. Rather than this, it was a better resolution to solve the dispute internally, judging (discerning) the matter amongst brothers in Christ instead of before secular magistrates, thus judging (determining a resolution) in the matter. It's fair to contend that a person that is not saved is not yet a "brother," but we must be ever mindful that God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentence. (2 Pet 3:9) To say that "it is necessary to discern dogs and swine from one's own brethren" is not really a matter of judgment. Such a thing is readily apparent when you actually confront such a person. I do not lightly choose to relagate the personna of dog or swine to anyone. That referred to me once upon a time, but God found me, cleansed me, and made me his own. Remember that Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. I choose not to judge another, and it is my opinion that no person that recognizes the doctrine of the New Testament will choose to do so either. We are to love one another. It has been my experience during my younger Christian years that judgment usually required a measure of anger, hatred, envy, jealousy, or some other emotion that is contrary to the spirit of the commandment of Christ which is to love one another as he loved us. If I'm angry at someone, it is my responsibility in the spirit of love to forgive them. If I'm jealous, it is my duty to bring that thought into the obedience of Christ. When the moment comes to judge another, if all things contrary to love have been brought into obedience, I find that all I want to do is love them and show them Christ. Recognize this, that if you are guilty of any sin, you are guilty of all. (James 2:10) To judge someone else, you judge them by the law, and to do so, you have to put them under the law, and simultaneously yourself as well. If you judge (determine the guilt of) someone else when you are guilty of an equal offense, you are a hypocrite and will be judged by the same standard you judge that other person. Matt 7:1-2 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged: and with what measure you mete, it will be measured to you again. This, in addition to Romans 2:1 "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whosoever you are that judges: for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things." I'm honestly not entirely sure why you contradicted me. I advised that he should pray for the person, love them, cast no judgment on them, and trust in God to bring them around. You wrote in with what seems the intention to instruct him to judge and condemn. I do not understand this. It is our goal to make disciples of all men. The world is condemned enough on its own without us passing judgment on it. God will judge the world in righteousness. Instead of wasting our time judging what is lost already, should we not instead take the time to show them love, that they might come to the truth? I promise that more people will come to Christ through love and hope than through judgment and condemnation. Please consider these things. Theo-Minor |
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73 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125772 | ||
I posted to this earlier, but I think I put it in the wrong place, so I'll write it again so it can be part of the active conversation. This is what I think: The "perfect" in my opinion is identified in Ephesians 4:11-16. The perfecting is when we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, "to a perfect man", to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. This, unity in faith, is the answer on the fleshly level. The spiritual and individual level of perfection is a new and glorified body in the resurrection. (Phillipians 3:11-12) It is my "opinion" that the gifts are still for today. There is no scripture suggesting that the gifts will pass away barring "perfection," as stated earlier in this exchange. I do not think the body of Christ has been perfected. There are too many people misguided, and there are too many divisions in the church to believe there is unity in faith. The problem with the gifts is not their availability to us today, but the selflessness it requires to be worthy of such gifts. Until we relearn humility, selflessness, and self sacrifice, we will never see clear to the faith it takes to perform such miracles. This is my opinion on the matter. |
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74 | searching for the truth | 1 Cor 11:3 | Theo-Minor | 125754 | ||
The "perfect" is identified in Ephesians 4:11-16. The perfecting is when we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. This, unity in faith, is the answer on the fleshly level. The spiritual and individual level of perfection is a new and glorified body in the resurrection. (Phillipians 3:11-12) It is my "opinion" that the gifts are still for today. There is no scripture suggesting that the gifts will pass away barring "perfection," as stated earlier in this exchange. I do not think the body of Christ has been perfected. There are too many people misguided, and there are too many divisions in the church to believe there is unity in faith. The problem with the gifts is not their availability to us today, but the selflessness it requires to be worthy of such gifts. Until we relearn humility, selflessness, and self sacrifice, we will never see clear to the faith it takes to perform such miracles. This is my opinion on the matter. |
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