Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Notes On or After: Thu 12/31/70 Author: Bern Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Whose Son is He? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 83071 | ||
Ray Thanks for the reply, it is good to have someone actually explain what they think. I know it takes time to do this. I shall reply further next week. Bern. PS. I don't give the NWT any credit - awful translation. |
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2 | Whose Son is He? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 83066 | ||
Can I read the Old Testament as well? It is better to read the whole Bible to get the whole picture. Jesus quoted the OT regularly. Bernie. |
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3 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 83065 | ||
All capitals are added in by the translators. They decide if it is 'Word' or 'word' as in John 1:1 Or 'Spirit' or 'spirit', etc. Anyone disagree? Bern |
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4 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82706 | ||
If you are correct the please answer the question by 'beethoven' He quotes John 17:3 |
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5 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82704 | ||
Glad you liked it. I trust a more helpful comment will come. |
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6 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82152 | ||
I will spell it out for you. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.(NIV) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,(NIV) 1 Cor 8:6 tells us that there is ‘one God, the Father’ could this not be plainer? Jesus is mentioned seperatly. 1 Tim 2:5 tells that there is one God and that Jesus is not that one God, Jesus is the mediatior between the one God and Man – seems clear enough. Bern |
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7 | pagan influence? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82035 | ||
Be fair. I’m just pointing out that translators of the Bible are human and can follow a pre-conditioned scheme of beliefs. The New World “Translation” is a great example of this. Also the ‘Diaglot’ which the JW’s also sell. As I said, Romans 9:5 is a difficult verse to translate, I’m no Greek scholar, I’m just pointing out that the verse can be read different ways. The NIV translators were honest enough to place in the footnote two other renderings, other versions are not. The translators prefered rendering is the one that teaches a trinity (follows their beliefs)- the other renderings remove the trinitarian teaching from the verse. This verse is hardly a great proof for the trinity. You may not like this but it is true. Rom 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen.(NIV) Footnote 9:5 Or Christ, who is over all. God be forever praised! Or Christ. God who is over all be forever praised! Therefore the verse could be read: "Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is over all. God be forever praised! Amen." Or read as "Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ. God who is over all be forever praised! Amen." I’m sorry of this ruins one of your proof texts. |
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8 | pagan influence? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82034 | ||
Hank Thanks for you reply. Can we have a constructive discussion. All you have done is told me that you think I’m wrong and then you quote two verses at me and that is meant to settle the matter. So you don’t like what I wrote, does it threaten your beliefs? I trust we are both in search of truth and therefore discussion on these things should be benefial to everyone – I’m not afraid to change my beliefs if someone can show me a better way – but it must be a scriptiual way. Going back over what I wrote before, but thowing in some extra comments... God was sure who he was - in the OT God tells us he is one. Deut 6:4 The LORD(YHWH) descibes himself in Ex 34:5-7 Any problems so far? The Jews of OT times believed he is one. ie. one person, who we today would call the Father, and that the Holy Spirit is the Father's power by which he is every where presant. As far I know this is a correct statement – I can find a source if you want. The trinity is a teaching that started to develop in the 2nd century and was completed in the 4th century. This development was influenced by pagan ideas and ever since people have tried to prove the trinity from the Bible. This is well documented in books written of early Christian doctrine – I have several books at home, I can give you the titles if you want. There is a post on this site that explains it all – search for ‘pagan influence trinity’, the first post that comes up. The Bible is clear, it speaks of: 1. God the Father 2. Jesus as the Son of God, never 'God the Son' 3. Holy Spirit is constantly shown to be a power that the Father controls. It is His power, in Gen 1:2 it is 'the Spirit of God' that hovered over the waters. Never is the Holy Spirit called 'God the Holy Spirit'. Do you agree that the following is not found in the Bible: ‘trinity’, ‘God the Son’, ‘God the Holy Spirit’? I guess my comments about the Holy Spirit cause you grief. Tell me, how was John the Baptist ‘filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth’ (Luke 1:15 NIV) if the Holy Spirit is a person. What is Luke 1:35 telling us about the Holy Spirit? “The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[3] the Son of God.” (NIV) This is the summary I gave to the question from another person… In answer to your question, it is the Christians of the 2nd century that were influenced by pagan beliefs and they corrupted what the apostles taught the century before. The Apostle Paul taught.... 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.(NIV) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,(NIV) 1 Cor 8:6 tells us that there is ‘one God, the Father’ could this not be plainer? It is clearer than Rom 9:5, which I have answer in another post. 1 Tim 2:5 tells us there is one God and that Jesus is not that one God – seems clear enough. I can quote more if you like. Please explain where ‘manifold are the errors’. Please tell me where you agree, if we can generate some common ground we have somewhere to start from. Bern PS I'll answer John 14:16 later, must go now. |
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9 | pagan influence? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82024 | ||
Rom 9:5 is a difficult verse to translate. If you believe the trinity you translate it imply the trinity and if you don't then you translate it in an untrinitarian way. The NIV is honest enough to add a footnote, both alternative renderings remove the trinity. Romans 9:5 (NIV) Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![1] Amen. Footnotes 9:5 Or Christ, who is over all. God be forever praised! Or Christ. God who is over all be forever praised! |
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10 | pagan influence? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82019 | ||
God was sure who he was - in the OT God tells us he is one. Deut 6:4 God (YHWH) descibes himself in Ex 34:5-7 The Jews of OT times believed he is one. ie. one person, who we today would call the Father, and that the Holy Spirit is the Father's power by which he is every where presant. The trinity as a teaching that started to develop in the 2nd century and was completed in the 4th century. This development was influenced by pagan ideas and ever since people have tried to prove the trinity from the Bible. The Bible is clear, it speaks of: 1. God the Father 2. Jesus as the Son of God, never 'God the Son' 3. Holy Spirit is constantly shown to be a power or force that the Father controls. It is His power, in Gen 1:2 it is 'the Spirit of God' that hovered over the waters. Never is the Holy Spirit called 'God the Holy Spirit'. In answer to your question, it is the Christians of the 2nd century that were influenced by pagan beliefs and they corrupted what the apostles taught the century before. The Apostle Paul taught.... 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, |
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